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suze
448804.  Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:36 pm Reply with quote

The original post in this thread was made 2 years ago, and Sark has by now begun a transition to democracy. Sark's first election will be held on 10 December, although thus far only seven people have declared that they will be seeking one of the 28 seats available. (Since the population of Sark is about 600, that must create just about the highest proportion of "MPs" of any country in the world.)

One thing that the Seigneur couldn't have done, incidentally, was to behead anyone. Sark is bound by Guernsey on matters which go beyond the merely local, and Guernsey has ratified the two parts of the European Convention on Human Rights which prohibit capital punishment.

 
Flash
448851.  Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:29 pm Reply with quote

Beheading someone is a fairly local matter if you're the person in question, but I dare say that's a specious objection.

 
bobwilson
449050.  Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:46 pm Reply with quote

none of which alters the fact that Sark was quite happy to continue to operate in a "non-democratic" way and that none of Sark's inhabitants appear to have raised any objections to the current system.

But the modern world doth encroach - and Sark must have the new God "democracy" imposed upon it. No doubt the inhabitants are now looking forward to the opportunity to paying the salaries of (as suze notes) 4% of their population for being engaged in the kind of debates that were previously provided free in the local hostelry. Not to mention the influx of civil servants that will be required to record, impose and monitor the results of such debates.

To paraphrase Monty Python - what has Democracy ever done for us?

 
Lukecash
449059.  Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:50 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:


One thing that the Seigneur couldn't have done, incidentally, was to behead anyone. Sark is bound by Guernsey on matters which go beyond the merely local, and Guernsey has ratified the two parts of the European Convention on Human Rights which prohibit capital punishment.


What the heck is the point of being a feudal lord if you can't just randomly pick someone out and say "Off with there heads?" Seriously, If I were a Lord and some lawyer started waving around words like "Human Rights" and "Treaties" I'd probably abdicate. When it stops being fun and all that.

Perhaps he should just make the island a multinational corporation, with him as majority stockholder. Then he can do what ever the bloody hell he wants.

 
bobwilson
449061.  Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:55 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Seriously, If I were a Lord and some lawyer started waving around words like "Human Rights" and "Treaties" I'd probably abdicate


Surely - behead him?

 
Lukecash
449064.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:05 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
Quote:
Seriously, If I were a Lord and some lawyer started waving around words like "Human Rights" and "Treaties" I'd probably abdicate


Surely - behead him?


Well, you can't if you were stupid enough to sign a treaty with "human rights". Apparently law school no longer teaches about the divine rights of the monarchs and nobles.

 
bobwilson
449066.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:19 am Reply with quote

Here we go again. What part of the Human Rights Act prevents beheading then Luke? Do tell - I'm all ears?

And when did Sark become a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights?

But let's not let facts get in the way of some good old fashioned chauvinism

 
Lukecash
449076.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:16 am Reply with quote

Well, According to Suze, they have signed European Convention on Human Rights. And according to that, capital punishment is forbidden.

She is my fountain of information. I confess, very humbly, that I know nothing for certain.

In the United States at least, people who are beheaded have the tendency to stop functioning biologically. Now I've heard that the United Kingdom does things differently-such as which lane you drive your automobiles. So a beheading may not be as drastic.

But then again you have NHS, where I get to pay the highest bidder.

 
dr.bob
449109.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:07 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
none of which alters the fact that Sark was quite happy to continue to operate in a "non-democratic" way and that none of Sark's inhabitants appear to have raised any objections to the current system.


Where are you getting that information from, bob? Given that the residents of Sark voted in February 2006 whether or not to adopt a democracy, and the supporters of democracy won by a margin of 6%, it would appear that a majority of people who cared enough to vote prefer democracy over the previous system.

 
suze
449326.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:19 pm Reply with quote

Sark itself has never signed up to the ECHR, and I'd tend to agree that the Seigneur would have been reluctant to do so had the matter been left to him.

But Sark forms part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, and as such it is bound by Guernsey on all matters beyond its own borders. Guernsey wasn't especially keen on the ECHR either, but the British government forced its hand and most (not all) of the protocols do apply to British colonial possessions. Among other things, that does mean that capital punishment is not allowed in Guernsey or in its dependencies such as Sark. (That being the effect of Protocols 6 and 13 of the ECHR.)

In fact, Guernsey in any case abolished capital punishment in 1965 via the Homicide (Guernsey) Law 1965 - the same year as it was abolished (initially temporarily) in England, Scotland, and Wales.


There's one thing you'll be pleased to learn though bob - the members of Sark's new parliament will be unpaid. On the other hand, there certainly will need to be a more extensive civil service than hitherto, a fact which the Seigneur has noted more than once.

 
Moosh
455299.  Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:15 pm Reply with quote

After the first election on Sark, only five of the 28 candidates elected to the Chief Pleas are seen as wanting reform.

The Barclay brothers have stormed off in a huff and taken their ball in with them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/guernsey/7778245.stm

 
Davini994
455323.  Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:51 pm Reply with quote

Lukecash wrote:
She is my fountain of information.

I think that should be fount there Luke.*

Quote:
Given that the residents of Sark voted in February 2006 whether or not to adopt a democracy, and the supporters of democracy won by a margin of 6%,

Well of course they did. The alternative, that democracy was rejected in a vote, is clearly a logical impossibility;)

*Suze is also my fount of knowledge, so hopefully she'll be along to deny or confirm shortly.

 
suze
455406.  Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:07 pm Reply with quote

Davini994 wrote:
*Suze is also my fount of knowledge, so hopefully she'll be along to deny or confirm shortly.


Originally, it was "fountain". John Locke (in An Essay Concerning Human Understanding, 1690) referred to God as being "fountain of all knowledge", while the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer calls him "fountain of all wisdom".

But it's by now rarely used in that form - "fount" and, increasingly albeit of dubious etymological soundness, "font" are rather more common.

 
Jenny
455428.  Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:48 pm Reply with quote

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

According to the OED Pieria is "a district in northern Thessaly, the reputed home of the muses." So Pierian is used as an adjective in reference to poetry and learning. I confess I thought it was a fountain...

 
Lukecash
458301.  Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:14 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Davini994 wrote:
*Suze is also my fount of knowledge, so hopefully she'll be along to deny or confirm shortly.


Originally, it was "fountain". John Locke (in An Essay Concerning Human Understanding, 1690) referred to God as being "fountain of all knowledge", while the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer calls him "fountain of all wisdom".

But it's by now rarely used in that form - "fount" and, increasingly albeit of dubious etymological soundness, "font" are rather more common.



"Fountain of _____" is actually still very common in the U.S. Font labels the different styles of letters used in typesetting. (Yay for my profession!)

 

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