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jervaulx
1050540.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:26 am Reply with quote

Pretty ordinary question but there doesn't seem to be a single answer definative or explantion and I thought this would be the best place to ask. Why is there an 'punt' or 'kick' on the bottom of a wine bottle?

 
knightmare
1050559.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:30 am Reply with quote

Why should there be a single answer?

http://www.wines.com/winepress/tributaries/99/bigger.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_bottle#Punts

 
Alfred E Neuman
1050568.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:55 am Reply with quote

Because there's an argument and there needs to be a winner?

 
jervaulx
1050570.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:04 am Reply with quote

There doesnt need to be a single answer or a winner, but I'd like to know why the glass maker decided to use that extra glass when he could have saved a buck.

 
knightmare
1050582.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:28 am Reply with quote

Quote:
There doesnt need to be a single answer or a winner, but I'd like to know why the glass maker decided to use that extra glass when he could have saved a buck.


A maker of glass trying to sell less glass?

If you like to focus on bucks, then you should have focused on some of the reasons already mentioned. Bigger is better, heavier is better. You'll earn more bucks with the right commercial bottle than with an efficient bottle. The wine is more expensive than the bottle. Or, to quote my previous resource:

Wikipedia wrote:
It consumes some volume of the bottle, allowing the bottle to appear larger for the same amount of wine, which may impress the purchaser.


If you like saving money instead of making more money, then you could use this efficient wine container. Penny wise, pound foolish. Perhaps the industry is trying to make more money with cheap wine in expensive bottles, instead of trying to save more money with efficient wine containers:

 
cnb
1050588.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:50 am Reply with quote

Quote:
The wine is more expensive than the bottle.


That's the case today, but was it when the punt in bottles was first 'invented'?

I'd have thought that pre-industrial bottle making was quite expensive.

 
dr.bob
1050590.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:52 am Reply with quote

knightmare wrote:
A maker of glass trying to sell less glass?


Thereby increasing their profit margins.

Nah, can't think of any reason they'd want to do that.

 
knightmare
1050595.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:59 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
The wine is more expensive than the bottle.


That's the case today, but was it when the punt in bottles was first 'invented'?

I'd have thought that pre-industrial bottle making was quite expensive.


I think Wikipedia listed a few of the (possible) historical reasons, and there's no commercial reason to use a modern bottle. People assuming the wine is better are willing to pay more for a bigger, full, heavier bottle.

 
knightmare
1050602.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:07 am Reply with quote

Quote:
knightmare wrote:
A maker of glass trying to sell less glass?


Thereby increasing their profit margins.

Nah, can't think of any reason they'd want to do that.


Eighter way, the customer orders a specific bottle. With a punt. The customers of the glass maker are penny foolish, pound wise. Expensive bottles, cheap wine in expensive bottles.

 
RLDavies
1050795.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:44 pm Reply with quote

The explanations I always found persuasive are that it strengthens the bottle, and that it prevents the pontil mark from scraping the table. There's no reason why it can't have been born from two advantages.

Given modern glassmaking methods, neither reason is necessary any more, and its continuation is just custom.

 
Jenny
1050801.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:19 pm Reply with quote

I always thought one of the reasons for the punt was to allow sediment to settle down at the bottom without being poured out with the rest of the wine.

 
knightmare
1050829.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:31 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
I always thought one of the reasons for the punt was to allow sediment to settle down at the bottom without being poured out with the rest of the wine.


The real reason doesn't really matter. I can find a source confirming your memory, including the fact that filters aren't always used. But then they say that (A) a punt is superfluous when the wine is filtered, and (B) people buying an expensive bottle do assume that the wine is worth it. So you'll upgrade (the price of) your wine by using an expensive bottle. If it's an unfiltered wine, then the punt has a second, real use.

 
knightmare
1050834.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:53 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
its continuation is just custom.


Tradition plays a role too. But wine marketing lesson #1 is a heavy bottle. It'll work in France too. This article discusses the results of a study of the Oxford University:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9543903/Heavier-wine-bottles-appear-more-expensive.html

 
knightmare
1050836.  Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:29 pm Reply with quote

Heavy bottles, the movie. The host had something to do with marketing, he was the producer of this 80s version of La Colegiala. Please note it's in Dutch, or French with Dutch subtitles. But it's the best example I could find in short notice related to marketing, wine, the punt and experienced French consumers of wine:

@ 7:50 Le Chateau of a wine (the building printed on the label is a museum).

@ 10:30: women buy 90% of all wine, and 95% of the women do prefer the cat. (test @ 10:55)

@ 12:30: the bottle factory, producing 260 different bottles

@ 19:00 the bottles of the punt test, filled with the same acceptable wine

@ 26:45 start of the test, which wine do they prefer
@ 30:00: end of the test. The plastic bottle lost. The winning, heaviest bottle #4 is empty

Of course this test isn't scientific at all, but it shows that even 'mama' has to try the great wine in the heaviest bottle.

 
RLDavies
1050911.  Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:13 am Reply with quote

People do prefer heavier goods (not just bottles). Something that's relatively light for its size seems shoddy.

There is, or used to be, a myth that the size of the punt indicated the quality of the wine -- the better the wine, the bigger the punt. Even if you don't believe that, a wine bottle without any punt at all seems somehow cheap, more like a pop bottle. So there's a clear consumer preference for a punt.

 

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