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Cosmic Top Secret

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1032213.  Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:35 am Reply with quote

I'm sorry to dissapoint the elves, as they made a mistake in the Keys episode, but, there *is* such a thing as cosmic top secret. It's used by Nato and Nato's allies.


1032318.  Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:41 pm Reply with quote

Interesting, but wasn't the original claim that this was something in the United States that was above the level of the President? Sorry if I've got that wrong but I haven't seen the episode - I'm going by what I remember hearing about it.

1032332.  Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:16 pm Reply with quote

Yeah. NATO isn't specifically in the United States and although I assume the leaders of the countries involved get what insight they want in things, there might be things which the President don't have any interest in, or is concerning things completely outside the affairs of the US and then pushing the documents on the President seems a bit backwards to me...

Then again, what I know of NATO and international politics could fit on the back of a stamp.

1032367.  Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:44 am Reply with quote

The original claim was hinting that it was to do with aliens as part of a ridiculous amount of made up secrecy levels, and that is was so super secret that the US president didn't have clearance.
Of course that's still all rubbish, but cosmic secret level itself does exist.
Also, as the president of a member state, the US president would most likely have clearance for cosmic clearance documents.

I just thought it was interesting.

1032369.  Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:45 am Reply with quote

Charles, NATO isn't in the United States, but the United States is in NATO.

1032383.  Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:50 am Reply with quote

Sharing classified information between countries

When a government agency or group shares information between an agency or group of other country’s government they will generally employ a special classification scheme that both parties have previously agreed to honour.

For example the marking ATOMAL, is applied to U.S. RESTRICTED DATA or FORMERLY RESTRICTED DATA and United Kingdom ATOMIC information that has been released to NATO. ATOMAL information is marked COSMIC TOP SECRET ATOMAL (CTSA), NATO SECRET ATOMAL (NSAT), or NATO CONFIDENTIAL ATOMAL (NCA).

In cases where a country wishes to share classified information bilaterally (or multilaterally) with a country that has a sharing agreement, the information is with the countries it can be shared with. Those countries would have to maintain the classification of the document at the level originally classified (TOP-SECRET, SECRET, etc.) with the appropriate caveat (USNZ, AUSGE, CANUK, etc.).
NATO classifications

For example, sensitive information shared amongst NATO allies has four levels of security classification; from most to least classified:


It was suggested that Cosmic Top Secret was a madey-upy thing originating from UFOlogists - which apparently it isn't. It also stands to reason that if the information has been passed on to NATO then the US president could be made aware of it if it was deemed important enough.

1032409.  Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:50 am Reply with quote

I recall reading somewhere that Bush snr was the best informed president they ever had because he had previously been head of the CIA (?) and thus had been briefed with things that they don't tell the president.

1032427.  Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:33 pm Reply with quote

George H W Bush was Director of Central Intelligence, which meant that he was in charge of all sixteen US Intelligence agencies, not just the CIA. (During the presidency of George W Bush, the role was split into two jobs, and by now the CIA does get a Director if its own.)

He only lasted a year in the job, because there was a change of President. Jimmy Carter moved into the White House, and decided to replace Bush with a Democrat - that's just how things work in the US.

But during his year, he did make a few changes. In conjunction with President Ford he had it made an official rule of the CIA that it was not to kill people, and that it was not to conduct any kind of operation against US citizens. (There had been an understanding that the investigation of US citizens when necessary was a police matter rather than a CIA matter. But until Bush, this wasn't written down anywhere.)

1032489.  Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:32 pm Reply with quote

computationem wrote:
Charles, NATO isn't in the United States, but the United States is in NATO.

That was what I was trying to say in my very rambling way. I don't have a way with words as of late, but I have an annoying habit of having to give my opinion on things even if I don't know anything about them.

Still, if it was a cosmic secret between, say, the UK and New Zealand, the US President wouldn't be informed.

Alfred E Neuman
1032510.  Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:59 am Reply with quote

New Zealand isn't in NATO either :-)

1032519.  Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:20 am Reply with quote

CharliesDragon wrote:
Still, if it was a cosmic secret between, say, the UK and New Zealand, the US President wouldn't be informed.

But surely Cosmic is a NATO classification so such a thing could not exist - not under that name anyway.

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
New Zealand isn't in NATO either :-)

By dint of being about as far as you can get from the North Atlantic.

1032631.  Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:42 pm Reply with quote

I swear New Zealand was mentioned here somewhere, but I was perhaps reading several threads in fast succession. I have enough keeping a faint grip of what countries are in the EU, NATO doesn't interest me a lot at the moment.

And I give up arguing this, since I just keep getting more confused.

1038097.  Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:32 pm Reply with quote

And 'tis all about to change , in the UK anyway.

Expecting much confusion at my previous place of work!

In terms of national caveats we have:


The last of those would be unlikely to contain any nuclear weapon information, for example.

I never came across anything, other than NATO, which was not one of the above, e.g.: AUSCANUK, for example. That's not to say that they don't exist - but at Secret/TS level documents/data are not shown willy-nilly amongst anyone with the appropriate clearance as it remains need-to-know.

Spud McLaren
1038526.  Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:43 pm Reply with quote

Confucius wrote:

Might be politically expedient, but it isn't very politically correct...

1145953.  Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:31 pm Reply with quote

CharliesDragon wrote:
but I have an annoying habit of having to give my opinion on things even if I don't know anything about them.

Of course you do - you're female...




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