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Smallest Constabulary in England

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Sadurian Mike
1003404.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:55 am Reply with quote

I may have found the smallest constable.

 
djgordy
1003419.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:22 am Reply with quote

bemahan wrote:
Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure if he was wanting to exclude those constables with full powers of arrest confined to a small very specific area of jurisdiction.


So far as I am aware, the office of constable holds for the whole country. The constable may work for a particular constabulary but someone from, say, Yorkshire, is still a constable if he is in Cornwall and retains the same powers. It isn't as in the USA where officers from New York may not have any powers in California.

 
Spud McLaren
1003421.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:24 am Reply with quote

So, at the risk of asking a question with an obvious answer, what exactly is "a constabulary" in this context?

According to this article, the Epping Forest Keepers number but twelve, are sworn in as constables, but rarely use their constabulary powers.

 
bemahan
1003451.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:01 am Reply with quote

djgordy wrote:

So far as I am aware, the office of constable holds for the whole country. The constable may work for a particular constabulary but someone from, say, Yorkshire, is still a constable if he is in Cornwall and retains the same powers. It isn't as in the USA where officers from New York may not have any powers in California.


Well, this is where there seems to be room for confusion.
At risk of repeating myself, from the HHC website
Quote:
They enjoy full powers of a constable when in their jurisdiction

The website seems to suggest that their area of jurisdiction only includes Hampstead Heath.

 
Dr Fell
1003513.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:07 pm Reply with quote

That still makes them constables. So Hamsted Heath appears to be in the lead - unless the Kew number includes support staff.

 
Spud McLaren
1003527.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:45 pm Reply with quote

I've been looking at the County Police Act 1839 and its successor, the County and Borough Police Act 1856. The latter provided that "a special police rate was to be levied to finance the county constabulary, instead of the cost being part of the general county rate." It also "repeated the definition of a county as in the 1839 Act, and noted that the Isle of Ely should be considered a county for constabulary purposes."

The Wiki article on the Police Act 1946 gives a breakdown of police forces in England & Wales at the time. And this article says:
The English part of the Royal Parks Constabulary, which patrolled a number of Greater London's major parks, was merged with the Metropolitan Police in 2004, and those parks are now policed by the Royal Parks Operational Command Unit. There is also a small park police force, the Kew Constabulary, responsible for the Royal Botanic Gardens, whose officers have full police powers within the park. A few London borough councils maintain their own borough park constabularies, though their remit only extends to park by-laws, and although they are sworn as constables under laws applicable to parks, their powers are not equal to those of constables appointed under the Police Acts, meaning that they are not police officers.

And this article says:
The "Hampstead Heath Constabulary" consists of twelve constables, four with trained General Purpose police dogs all licensed to ACPO/Home Office standards. They have been responsible for patrolling the Heath 24 hours a day since 1992.

They are attested as constables under Article 18 of the Ministry of Housing and Local Government Provisional Order Confirmation (Greater London Parks and Open Spaces) Act 1967 before a City of London magistrate. This authorises them to enforce the Hampstead Heath bylaws. They enjoy full powers of a constable in relation to the bylaws and legislation of open spaces when in their jurisdiction of the Heath and have a good working partnership with the Metropolitan Police. All criminal offences on the Heath are investigated by the Metropolitan Police Service, the territorial police force for Greater London.
(my bold)

I don't know whether that helps, though. Taking the bold in the second quote against that in the first, it makes me wonder whether the Heathers qualify under Dr. Fell's original premise.


Last edited by Spud McLaren on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

 
Dr Fell
1003529.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:46 pm Reply with quote

I think that it clinches it for Kew.

 
bemahan
1003532.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:52 pm Reply with quote

Spud's made the point I was trying to highlight.
bemahan wrote:
Wiki says "Members of the police forces are attested under section 29 of the Police Act 1996."
Although Port and Park constabularies etc are attested and have powers of arrest, they are attested under different sections to that above.

 
Sadurian Mike
1003533.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:56 pm Reply with quote

Wait a second, is there confusion here over the difference between a constable and police constable?

Some of you seem to be discounted constables just because they aren't the police, which is not what a constabulary actually is.

 
bemahan
1003540.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:09 pm Reply with quote

I must say I'm finding it all very confusing.
Seems to me we need to strictly define what, for the purposes of the OP, is counted as a 'constabulary'. I understood that 'constabulary' is, as far as I can see, just an older word for a police force. I think one of the reasons they changed from the word 'constabulary' to 'police force' was because people tend to search (either online or in a phone directory) on the word 'police' rather than 'constabulary'.

 
Spud McLaren
1003543.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:12 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
Wait a second, is there confusion here over the difference between a constable and police constable?

Some of you seem to be discounted constables just because they aren't the police, which is not what a constabulary actually is.
Must confess, Mike, that I'd assumed that "constables with full arresting powers" would be only the police. We do seem to be getting a bit bogged down in definitions here. Have you any info to help out?

 
Sadurian Mike
1003547.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:19 pm Reply with quote

Sure, constables are given special powers of arrest, search and enforcement when operating in their role. Hence prison officers, river wardens and so on are constables, but are not policemen.

Interestingly, the British Transport Police only have powers of constable when on railway-related property, although this may be extended when operating in relation to the railways network but not on railway land. This is a similar situation to prison officers being able to exercise their powers of constable outside the courts and prisons if the situation directly relates to a prisoner.

The basic premise is that constables have extended law-enforcement powers but only when acting within their sphere of responsibility.

 
tetsabb
1003552.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:35 pm Reply with quote

Looking at a list at work, among English counties and geographical areas, there are 16 Constabularies , eg Wiltshire Constabulary, 23 described as 'Police' eg Kent Police.
There area also 2 Police Groups.
These are the official titles I use for certain actions I carry out and have to record accurately

I wondered if the OP meant the average height of the coppers.
Shortest and tallest could be awfully difficult to find out.

 
Spud McLaren
1003599.  Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:19 pm Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:
I wondered if the OP meant the average height of the coppers.
Shortest and tallest could be awfully difficult to find out.
On the contrary, that info is available, names and all. I'm not sure exactly how up to date it is, though.

Edit: Here it is.

 
plinkplonk
1099218.  Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:28 pm Reply with quote

Is it the Burlington Arcade?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19683562

Edit: I've done the usual thing of quoting something that I discovered on QI-only in this case, it's this thread, isn't it?

 

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