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Killer topic to kill them all

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925159.  Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:18 pm Reply with quote

I don't know if it got included in the J series, but I wrote the following as a suggestion under Judges, Juries and Justice, but could also come under Killers:

Q. Which serial killer was the inspiration for such films as Psycho, Texas Chainsaw Massacres, and Silence of the Lambs?

Klaxon for Ed Gein.

While it's true that Ed Gein was the inspiration for these films, and others, he only killed two women, and was in fact only tried for the murder of one. The definition of a serial killer is one who murders three or more people.

Although he only killed two women, he did dig up and steal the bodies of several people, using their skins to make a skin suit and various items, such as face masks, chair seat covers, lamp shades, and even a belt made from nipples.

There is some speculation that Ed may have killed his brother during a fire, but this is dismissed by most biographers. Some claim that the Sheriff who questioned him could be counted as a third victim because he died of a heart attack only a month after the trial at the age of 43, and many people who knew him claimed he was deeply traumatised by what he found and having to go through the evidence again in the trial (it was held 11 years after the initial arrest as Gein was deemed unfit to stand trial beforehand).

If this question is put up, I'd suggest a klaxon for John Wayne Gacy, who had nothing to do with these films, but when I tried out this question on a couple of people that was the first name they thought of.


925207.  Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:35 pm Reply with quote

While it's true that Ed Gein was the inspiration for these films, and others, he only killed two women,

What were their names? The two women he killed I mean? Isn't it a sad indictment of modern culture that the name Ed Gein is familiar but I doubt anyone knows the name of his victims?

925236.  Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:46 am Reply with quote

They were called Mary Hogan and Bernice Worden.

925238.  Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:56 am Reply with quote

But you had to look 'm up, right? ;p

925263.  Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:30 am Reply with quote

Don't underestimate Strawberry's knowledge. All that time spent in the Obit. Thread have paid off. :)

925268.  Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:47 am Reply with quote

I don't. But I began wondering about knowledge vs memory, and found this. QI.

925279.  Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:23 am Reply with quote

Yorz is right as i did have to look them up.

925289.  Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:53 am Reply with quote

I'm sure there are people out there who remember Ed Gein's victims' names, and I agree that it's sad we remember his name and not theirs, but while their deaths were sad it was his inhumane acts that people remember and why his name is still known.

It's also why we know the name of Vlad the Impaler, but not his victims, Attilla the Hun, Ghengis Khan, and in modern times Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and many others. Their actions were an abomination and that's why they're remembered, and by remembering their names and their actions I like to think that their victims are not forgotten.

925291.  Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:03 am Reply with quote

Can I bring counterpoint by admitting that I didn't remember the name "Ed Gein"?

[really - it meant nothing to me]


925639.  Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:33 pm Reply with quote

CB27 wrote:
he only killed two women,

I'm not sure that the word "only" is really apprpriate. It seems to suggest that he was a bit of a slacker and should have tried harder.

I did once set a quiz question "how many women did Dr. Crippen murder". So far as I remember, nobody got the correct answer of "one".

925644.  Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:59 pm Reply with quote

I present to you the case of the murder of Guillaume Bernays in 1882:

Guillaume was an attorney living in Antwerp and was married to Julie, a handsome woman who caught the eye of Armand Peltzer.

Armand decided he needed to get rid of Guillaume so he could marry Julie, but he needed to do it in a way that didn't implicate him, and so the idea for the perfect murder started to grow.

For the idea to work Armand contacted his younger brother, Leon, who was living in New York, hiding from the debts he racked up in Argentina. They met up in Paris and the set in motion their dastardly plan.

It was actually a simple plan, Leon was to disguise himself as a completely different person, with different hair, complexion and style, and assume the fictional name of Henry Vaughan. As Henry he stayed at the top hotels in a number of cities, including Amsterdam and Brussels, posing as a successful businessman looking to employ a fleet of ships from Amsterdam to Sydney.

Before too long Henry contacted Guillaume to employ his skills as an attorney and asked to meet him in Brussels. When Guillaum arrived he was led to a chair and Leon (as Henry) pulled out a pistol and shot him through the back of the head.

Leon now burned his wig and false beard, got rid of his glasses, washed off his make up and went into hiding in Bale, Switzerland.

When the police found the body, all signs led to one suspect - Henry Vaughan, a man who didn't really exist.

This would have indeed been the perfect murder if not for Leon's impatience. After 10 days of scanning the newspapers for reports of Guillaume's death, he decided to write to the Belgian police, posing as Henry Vaughan, admitting to a horrible accident in which a pistol he was shoawing Guillaume had accidentally gone off, and that as a foreigner he decided to flee.

The Belgian police were baffled by their inability to trace Henry, so they turned to a technology stil in its infancy, photography. They issued photocopies of the letter written by "Henry", and a chemist eventually recognised the handwriting as being similar to Leo Peltzer's.

Once police caught up with Leon, it didn't take them long to discover the mastermind behind the murder, Armand, and both were eventually tried for the murder in late 1882. Despite their confident pleas of innocence, they were found guilty and sentenced to death, but as the death penalty had been abolished in Belgium, this was changed to life imprisonment.

Within less than 3 years Armand fell ill from drinking warm wine and died. Leon served 30 years before being set free and spending some years in exile. He returned to Belgium, where he decided to commit suicide by jumping into the ocean and drowning himself.

925700.  Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:37 pm Reply with quote

CB wrote
Armand fell ill from drinking warm wine

Dangerous habit, this chambre-ing.

935617.  Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:20 pm Reply with quote

Inspired from an article on Listverse; humans may well be responsible for the extinction of many species, but they're also responsible for the survival of some, ensuring they're not all killed off.

In looking up some information, I found reference to a book called "The Ghosts of Evolution: Nonsensical Fruit, Missing Partners, and Other Ecological Anachronisms" by Connie Barlow, which seems to cover the subject in relation to plants, and offers a great understanding of evolution rather than simply "survival of the fittest".

One example quoted is the Avocado. Anyone who's had an avocado will attest to the size of the stone (or seed) of the avocado fruit, and when you consider that this plant, like many others, would require an animal to swallow and defecate the stone whole while digesting the fruit, you realise this is very difficult for most animals, and impossible for any animals found in the regions where avocado originally grew.

The theory is that those animals which could defecate the avocado seed became extinct maybe as long as 13,000 years ago, perhaps hunted down by humans, and the plant may well have become extinct if not for the humans themselves finding the fruit nutritious and cultivating it for their own needs.

There are other fruit which could qualify under the same theory.

Another beneficiary of human interference is the Golden Hamster, a very common type of pet around the world.

It was only 80 years ago that a Jewish zoologist (Israel Aharoni) travelled to Aleppo, Syria, to find the Syrian (Golden) Hamster, which some thought to be nearly extinct. Finding a nest, he took them back to Jerusalem, but the mother started to eat some of her young before dying herself, leaving 4 baby hamsters he had to hand rear himself and breed sisters and brothers in order to grow the population.

From these 4 baby hamsters he rebuilt the hamster population to a point where after only 10 years some were sent abroad for use inlaboratories and as pets. Some managed to escape, and to this day there is still a population of wild golden hamsters in Israel. These wild hamsters, and all other golden hamsters kept as pets around their world came from that one single mother that Israel found in 1930, thus saving the species from extinction .

953233.  Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:20 pm Reply with quote

What do you do with a murderous elephant?

In the case of the people in Kingsport, Tennessee, they hung her.

This tale takes place in 1916, when Charlie Sparks' circus rolled into town, featuring Mary the elephant, who he claimed was even bigger than Jumbo. On September 11th, the circus hired a hotel janitor, Red Eldridge, to help take care of the elephants, but this job was to only last until the next day.

On 12th September, while taking the elephant down to a local pond for a splash and a drink, Mary had stopped for a moment to nibble on a watermelon rind that had been left on the ground. Red used a hook on the end of a stick to prod the elephant behind the ear, a somewhat sensitive area, and it sent the animal into a rage. Mary is reported to have snatched him up with her trunk and thrown him against a drink stand, before charging at him and crushing him under her weight.

Naturally, the locals feared for their safety, and a blacksmith ran out with a shotgun and shot Mary 5 times, with no effect. A local sherrif also tried shooting the elephant, but did very little damage. Despite all of this, it seems the elephant was subdued and held by the circus.

The local people demanded that the elephant be killed, and the circus owners knew that they would not be allowed in nearby towns with a known killer elephant, so the next day she was transported by rail to Erwin, and 2,500 people (including many children) came out to watch her hanging.

They used an industrial crane and started lifting her up when an awful sound of cracking could be heard - someone had forgotten to unchain her leg and she was being stretched. Once the chain was removed from her leg, they tried again, but after lifting her a short distance, the chain snapped and she fell back to the ground with such a force that it broke her hip, disabling her from fighting for her life.

A larger chain was brought and she was finally hung and killed, then left on display for at least half an hour before being taken down and dumped in a large grave. There were conflicting reports that her body may have been burned, along with one or more bodies of black men lynched, though this could be a confusion between this incident and the lynching of a black man less than 2 years later.

dr bartolo
953322.  Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:23 am Reply with quote

I Belive it is my duty to shewthe gentle readers of the forum a picture of aforesaid exceution


On the other hand, there is the exceution by elephant
To quote sir Henry charles Sirr:

During the native dynasty it was the practice to train elephants to put criminals to death by trampling upon them, the creatures being taught to prolong the agony of the wretched sufferers by crushing the limbs, avoiding the vital parts. With the last tyrant king of Candy, this was a favourite mode of execution and as one of the elephant executioners was at the former capital during our sojourn there we were particularly anxious to test the creature's sagacity and memory. The animal was mottled and of enormous size, and was quietly standing there with his keeper seated upon his neck; the noble who accompanied us desired the man to dismount and stand on one side.

The chief then gave the word of command, ordering the creature to 'slay the wretch!' The elephant raised his trunk, and twined it, as if around a human being; the creature then made motions as if he were depositing the man on the earth before him, then slowly raised his back-foot, placing it alternately upon the spots where the limbs of the sufferer would have been. This he continued to do for some minutes; then, as if satisfied that the bones must be crushed, the elephant raised his trunk high upon his head and stood motionless; the chief then ordered him to 'complete his work,' and the creature immediately placed one foot, as if upon the man's abdomen, and the other upon his head, apparently using his entire strength to crush and terminate the wretch's misery.


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