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Perception of rape

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'yorz
1270371.  Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:03 am Reply with quote

Not in mine.
Technical question: had he been sacked, would have that precluded him from staying on as an MP?

 
dr.bob
1270374.  Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:12 am Reply with quote

I don't think so. It's fairly well documented that it's technically impossible to fire an MP in the UK. For instance, Mark Garnier was fired as minister of International Trade, but remains MP for Wyre Forest.

 
'yorz
1270378.  Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:32 am Reply with quote

Actually, I now see that it is technically possible, but it would take that MP to have been in prison for over a year. source.

 
Jenny
1270706.  Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:37 pm Reply with quote

A Facebook friend of mine (male) shared this Ted talk - thought it might interest some of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTvSfeCRxe8&t=133s&index=15&list=LL-T5raEzGrVpGL8S5JmaXqQ

 
franticllama
1271080.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:05 am Reply with quote

This article reiterates some themes we've danced around* regarding consent. Made for a very interesting read

*and bulldozed through on occasion

 
'yorz
1271097.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:54 am Reply with quote

'bulldozed through' as in 'difference in opinion'? ;-p

 
Jenny
1271177.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:50 pm Reply with quote

On the account in that article, if it wasn't outstandingly obvious that she was unhappy and unenthusiastic, he's an idiot. On the other hand, she could simply have left.

 
'yorz
1271181.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:40 pm Reply with quote

And don't give blowjobs just to keep the peace. If you're not really in the mood or just don't want to, then don't. Talking about mixed signals.....

Later: and as for 'hooking up' - I always understood that to mean dating, going out, going steady. The sexual component was not a given for me. And this article points out that there actually are many possible imeanings of that expression; a recipe for misunderstanding.

 
crissdee
1271190.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:40 pm Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
........as for 'hooking up' - I always understood that to mean dating, going out, going steady.........


Me too, it had me wondering for a moment.

 
Jenny
1271191.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:44 pm Reply with quote

I think it used to mean that in my younger days, but nowadays I think it has a more specifically sexual connotation.

 
'yorz
1271192.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:46 pm Reply with quote

Read the article - sex is not a given.

 
barbados
1271196.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm Reply with quote

I would suggest that with only 9% of those asked not believing sex was involved Jenny is correct, there are definite connotations

 
suze
1271201.  Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:42 pm Reply with quote

The young women with whom I spend my working life are not necessarily representative, but when they use this expression they use it to mean casual sex with someone other than your boyfriend.

Having sex with your boyfriend is shagging; with someone you shouldn't really be doing it with it's hooking up.

 
Baryonyx
1271249.  Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:20 am Reply with quote

On enthusiasm, this article I remembered from 2015 seems very sensible.

 
'yorz
1271261.  Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:11 am Reply with quote

Of which article, below comment struck me as quite insightful.

Quote:
JTzara 30 Jan 2015 11:48

I'm not sure that the author characterises the debate correctly.

Firstly, there is a difference about how we 'normally' behave, and what we would want to classify as a criminal act. Enthusiasm is obviously the best case, desired scenario. The question is, if there wasn't enthusiasm (i.e. we're not in a best case scenario) are we talking about a criminal offense or not? I agree that the new guidelines seem reasonable, as it's perfectly reasonable to ask someone accused of rape why he believed he had consent.

I would like to investigate that best case scenario, though, and to ask just how 'normal' it is.

Sometimes, we have sex with people because we really really really want to have sex with them. It would be simple if that was the only reason. Sometimes, though, we have sex with people for other reasons- to show someone we love them, to gain status amongst our friends, out of gratitude, out of duty, out of social pressure, to obtain something, to make someone jealous, to improve our self-esteem, perhaps even out of pity or, if it's our first time, just to find out what it's like and to get it done. We aren't all that enthusiastic, but we do it anyway. It's not always an attractive side of human nature, but it's there and it shouldn't be criminalised.
Sometimes, neither of us are entirely 'enthusiastic' about the whole affair. That's not to say the sex isn't consenting - it always should be, obviously - but people can be consenting and yet unsure if what they have consented to is the best of ideas, or even be consenting and not particularly look forward to having sex. I'm sure we've all slept with someone we didn't find attractive but, well, we did it anyway. In all likelihood, it's also probably happened the other way around too. If it hasn't happened to you then congratulations, I imagine you yourself are a very attractive person, or have led a very happy and uncomplicated life. Not everyone is like you, though.

What I'm trying to say, clumsily, is that sex is more complicated than two people who have the hots for one another jumping enthusiastically into bed.


My bold

 

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