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46377.  Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:26 pm Reply with quote


46394.  Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:23 pm Reply with quote

Another occasionally confusing digraph is the German eszett, or Scharfes S, written as ß

It has no upper case form, because it never occurs at the beginning of a word. The German eszett is used in words such as: Fuß, Straße, groß, draußen.

Eszett became less common in 1996, when German spelling reform ruled it acceptable to use ss instead of ß in some cases. Nowadays, correct German spelling only calls for the eszett after long vowels and diphthongs.

There are situations where the wrong usage of ss instead of ß may change the meaning of the word. E.g.:

Maße - measures, dimensions
Masse - bulk mass

My favourite memory of this letter, though, was of standing behind a pair of American tourists looking at a sign pointing the way to the Schloß, and one said to the other 'Gee Fred, do you think we could go look at the schlob?'

46413.  Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:18 pm Reply with quote

Anyone who begins by saying 'Ye ...' is forfeited moft cruelly and rendered ridiculous with flafhinge lightes.

I bet that both the proprietor and the signwriter say 'Ye Olde'.
By the way, nice try with the long s, but it shouldn't have a crossbar. Try Times New Roman U+017F 'ſ''

Last edited by mckeonj on Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

46417.  Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:23 pm Reply with quote

Some years ago, a cake shop opened in Limerick City, with a sign which read:
Lés Maisons Gateaus
and a nearby beauty salon had a sign which read:
Ears Pierced While You Wait
I wish I had photographed them.

I have edited this, and removed the x from gateauxs, which now reads as the original. JM

Last edited by mckeonj on Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

46419.  Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:28 pm Reply with quote

Since coffee wasn't introduced to Europe until the 17th C. I suspect that it wasn't all that popular with the Anglo Saxons. Therefore I suggest that the sign does say 'ye' as it is an affectation and not a genuine attempt at reproducing the atmosphere of an Anglo Saxon cafe.

gerontius grumpus
46430.  Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:12 pm Reply with quote

Some representations of pronunciation use thorn and another symbol for the hard sounding th ( which I think is officially termed soft )as in 'the'.
Is this an old letter or just a modern symbolused for convenience.

46492.  Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:18 am Reply with quote


46517.  Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:38 am Reply with quote

But it's so much more fun if you use the f instead of the ſ'!

46560.  Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:32 pm Reply with quote

From a recent private communication, cut and pasted 'cos I'm lazy that way...

In terms of Style, or even ftyle, it seems that you are labouring under a misapprehension my old liripipe. According to

this site the ‘f’ we’re referring to is called the secretary s and could be printed (as in hand-written but not cursive) as a capital S but this seems to be an Elizabethan development (post printing one assumes). In the opening of Julian of Norwich’s "Showing of Love" (Westminster Cathedral MS) the text reads

OU re gracious & goode/ lorde god shewed me in/ party the wisdom & the trewthe

But the s of ‘shewed’ is obviously penned in a secretary styling, ie it resembles an f but the character when seen in isolation does not have the cross bar. In this instance however the florid nature of the following h, which itself became modified in Elizabethan handwriting into a secretarial form (see web-page above), produces the appearance of a more conventional f, although it isn’t [here]. Since it’s not possible [for me C.] to accurately represent this in print I’m going to stick with my version.

It always seemed to me that there were no exacting rules about s or ‘f’ but that might just be ignorance on the part of ancient scribes or, more likely, your current one.
Best wishes and fee you foon


46563.  Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:43 pm Reply with quote


46591.  Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:30 pm Reply with quote

In that link Celebaelin put up, the word 'blessed' in the Julian of Norwich manuscript is written with two long s's that clearly don't have a cross bar.


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