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Kissing Cousins

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swot
939986.  Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:46 am Reply with quote

Spoilt Victorian wrote:
MinervaMoon wrote:
This is a picture of me and Walter Koenig.

This is a picture of me and Nichelle Nichols..


*jealous face*

~ V


Oh yeah, well I'm George Takei's facebook friend.

Or I like his page, something like that. I have his 'Oh Myyyyyy' ring tone :)

 
Celebaelin
939988.  Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:56 am Reply with quote

MinervaMoon wrote:
This is a picture of me and Walter Koenig.

This is a picture of me and Nichelle Nichols.

Admit it, you've got Leonard Nimoy's DNA on a signed napkin as well haven't you?

 
CB27
939989.  Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:17 am Reply with quote

You mean she stole it off Sheldon???

 
MinervaMoon
940170.  Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:55 pm Reply with quote

swot wrote:
You're awesome.

Anyway, just for some unnecessary pedantry, do you mean that he remembers being a biatch to them, but forgets the others, or that he was nice to only them?

He said to Nichelle something along the lines of "we were one big happy family back then, weren't we?", and she said, " . . . No, Bill." He would do things like change the "supporting" actors lines so they were given to him or Nimoy, insist on being at the forefront of every shot, sometimes squeezed the other actors out of the shot entirely, etc. Jimmy Doohan and Walter Koenig loathe(d) him (only past tense in the former case because he is deceased), happy-go-lucky George Takei hates him, and even Nichelle used to have fond memories of him, but has since felt betrayed by him.

Much as this video makes me cringe, watch the tongue-in-cheek "Walter Koenig's Bad Day", in which Shatner, by this time having worked with Koenig for twenty years, doesn't know his name.

Strawberry wrote:
i have Beyond Uhura as well; the fiancÚ bought it for me a few years ago. Also, i'm impressed that Minerva has met Nichelle Nichols.

I met her Labor Day weekend and she signed her book for me, though I didn't get a picture. The next weekend (last weekend, actually), at Walter Koenig's star celebrations in Hollywood, I approached her before Sunday banquet to rectify this situation, but before I could get a word out, she said, "If you tell me you are one day over 15, I will slap you!" That's me told for the egregious error of having been born in the 1980s. After asking to see the photo on my camera: "Look at us! [with laughter] We should be in pictures."

Then Harlan Ellison spoke at Walter's dinner, and offered up the gem:
"I promised I wouldn't make any Shatner jokes. But Walter and I have an agreement, that on the event of William Shatner's death(!!) -- "
[he spat out the word and the whole room cracked up for a full minute; Wil Wheaton was next to me and I thought he was going to vomit a lung]
" -- whichever of us hears first will call the other, and we can raise our flags to full mast."

This is an unnecessary anecdote, but one I'd like to share. At the beginning of dinner, I saw Walter enter the room and start to thread his way to his seat, and I pointedly looked away so as not to seem obnoxious. I was picking at my salad for a few seconds when I felt a hand on my arm; it was Walter. "My God! A Buck Alice fan and absolutely gorgeous to boot." He then made his way to his seat without talking to anyone else. WHAT. (Buck Alice and the Actor-Robot is a book he wrote, and one of his primary bits of information about me, which he's been mulling over for nine years, is that we're the "only two people on Earth" who like it.)

Celebaelin wrote:
Admit it, you've got Leonard Nimoy's DNA on a signed napkin as well haven't you?

I have a t-shirt on which he traced his own hand in Sharpie (not a re-print, an original) in the "Live Long and Prosper" position. Unfortunately when I wear it, it looks like some lecherous Vulcan is pressing his hand against my chest.


I am so sorry for derailing this thread; I have ~~feelings~~ about Star Trek.
suze -- for whom I once demonstrated this -- can vouch for the fact that I can recite "The Trouble with Tribbles" verbatim.

In any case, today I passed this incestuous restaurant on the way back from class.

 
CB27
940217.  Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:42 am Reply with quote

Going back to kissing cousins again, we should mention Edgar Allan Poe as his marriage to his cousin is Qi as well.

He met his future wife, Virginia, when he left the army, he was 20 and she was only 7. Within 4 years he was living in the same house and was wooing a neighbour, using Virginia as a go between for the two (she would have been 11 at the time).

Within a couple of years both Virginia's grandmother and brother died, leaving her and her mother facing a tough existence, and it seems that by this time Edgar had become interested in his 13 year old cousin (he was twice her age by then).

Virginia had a half sister, who was also her second cousin, as their mothers were cousins. This sister was married to another cousin (this was one heck of a close family!), and this cousin was worried about Edgar's intention towards Virginia because of her age (who cared about them being cousins by this time?).

Edgar managed to convince Virginia to allow the two to marry, listing her age on the marriage certificate as 21 instead of 13. Unfortunately their marriage lasted a little over 11 years, as Virginia died from TB at just 24 years old. Poe would die two and a half years later, having been found wandering the streets in confusion.

 
suze
940374.  Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:55 pm Reply with quote

MinervaMoon wrote:
suze -- for whom I once demonstrated this -- can vouch for the fact that I can recite "The Trouble with Tribbles" verbatim.


Duly vouched!

MinervaMoon wrote:
Jimmy Doohan ... loathed him


In turn, I've probably told Minerva this before. Jimmy Doohan's autobiog (which is called, would you believe, Beam me up, Scotty) makes it very clear indeed how much Jimmy disliked Bill Shatner. It has been reported that they made some kind of peace not long before Jimmy died, although this claim is denied nearly as often as it is made.

Jimmy didn't particularly like Leonard Nimoy either, but there was nothing like the detestation that he had for Shatner.

An Irish Canadian from Vancouver with a fondness for a drink and a reserved and deeply religious Southern gentleman from Georgia didn't have a great deal in common, and so Jimmy never really knew DeForest Kelley all that well. It seems that Mr Kelley was a reluctant celebrity, didn't go to showbiz parties unless he was being paid for it, and kept himself largely to himself.

 
Arcane
940405.  Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:04 pm Reply with quote

Do we have a dedicated Star Trek fan page? If not, perhaps we should!

MM sat next to Wil Wheaton? Sheldon would be having the hissy fit to end all hissy fits...

 
'yorz
940408.  Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:24 pm Reply with quote

*surreptitiously hands exnihilo much-needed valerian drops*

 
Arcane
940410.  Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:41 pm Reply with quote

Back to the topic...

Just how many of the British Royal Family were/are closely related as in first cousins etc? Was it a common theme in European Royalty or just in the UK?

I'd also be interested if anyone has figures on how common first cousin marriages actually are, and what it means for any children genetics wise.

 
Strawberry
940411.  Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:45 pm Reply with quote

A few minutes ago, i remembered something from a programme that i watched in August. The programme was Channel 4's Greatest Comedy Shows and Peep Show came second. It was mentioned that when people in Peep Show kiss, they are in fact kissing the camera. And Issy Suttie (who plays Dobby) said that people sometimes ask her if she has kissed anyone while appearing in Peep Show, meaning that she has to explain that she has only ever kissed the camera.

 
suze
940413.  Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:18 pm Reply with quote

Arcane wrote:
Just how many of the British Royal Family were/are closely related as in first cousins etc? Was it a common theme in European Royalty or just in the UK?


It absolutely has been a common theme among European royalty. The Habsburg dynasty, who ran an empire from Vienna for five hundred or so years, were particularly known for marrying close relatives.

For instance, look at this family tree of part of the Spanish branch of the dynasty. Not only are there cousin marriages, but there is also an uncle/niece marriage.

Carlos II, the last of the Spanish Habsburgs, lived to the age of only 38, and had multiple disabilities. And accordingly, it is often suggested that this inbreeding was the main reason why both the Spanish and Austrian lines went extinct in the C18, leading in both cases to wars over the succession to the throne.


Arcane wrote:
I'd also be interested if anyone has figures on how common first cousin marriages actually are, and what it means for any children genetics wise.


An American professor named Robin Fox reckons that 80% of all sexual unions in the history of mankind have been between people who were second cousins or closer. Actual marriage between first cousins is really quite uncommon in the Western world, not least because it is illegal in much of the USA. In other countries rooted in the Judeo-Christian heritage it is legal but rare, but it's really rather common in Muslim society.

More than half of marriages among British Pakistanis are first cousin marriages - and it is noted that genetic disorders are considerably more common among that community than in the rest of British society. A couple of Labour MPs tried to bring this issue to the public agenda, but Gordon Brown rather told them to shush.

BBC press release on the subject.

 
bemahan
940434.  Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:35 am Reply with quote

Anecdotal evidence, I know, but my sister was a paediatric nurse and spent many years working in GOSH and St Mary's Paddington on both intensive care and neonatal nurse, up to the grade of Sister. She often spoke about the high numbers of patients with problems as a result of marriage of cousins, particularly amongst the Asian community. Ironically, she went on to marry a Muslim so hopefully she spread the word amongst her in-laws about the risks of cousin marriages.

 
CB27
940516.  Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:32 am Reply with quote

If you go back to antiquity when humans lived in small groups, we would not have survived had it not been for sexual relations between first cousins and at times brothers and sisters.

As much as I personally am not comfortable with the idea of incest and such close relations between cousins, I always wondered why it's claimed to cause so many medical problems today when just a few thousand years ago it went on generation after generation and we survived?

I wonder whether the idea comes from looking at the number of people born with problems, rather than everyone on the whole?

For example, if the average percentage of people born with disabilities is something like 3% and from incestous relationships it's 6%, you could say you are twice as likely to have a child with disability, but that still leaves 94% of children unaffected, so it's really 1 in 20.


Last edited by CB27 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total

 
exnihilo
940517.  Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:33 am Reply with quote

We survived to 30, if we were lucky.

 
swot
940535.  Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:56 am Reply with quote

MinervaMoon wrote:
suze -- for whom I once demonstrated this -- can vouch for the fact that I can recite "The Trouble with Tribbles" verbatim.


How about the DS9 crossover episode Trials and Tribbleations?


I recall reading something (must do better research) that first-cousin marriages aren't enormously more risky than non-related marriage, but I don't know if that meant a one-off or if your ancestors habitually married first cousins. I saw a CBBC (or possibly Channel 5 for children) documentary about travellers (what little I saw was much more sedate that My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, and more informative), in which the children being interviewed saw cousin marriage as a normal thing in their culture. Is there any data on genetic disorders of the travelling community?

 

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