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Science Daily - Disagreeable People Prefer Aggressive Dogs

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What's wrong with this article
Bad Science?
33%
 33%  [ 2 ]
Bad Reporting?
66%
 66%  [ 4 ]
Neither - dog people really oughtn't get their shorts in such a knot and take it on the chin - science doesn't lie!
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 6

Oceans Edge
913346.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:18 pm Reply with quote

Woah has this one sparked a debate over in my FB. Most of the dog people (including my older sister who raises championship Schuzhund German Shepherds) are kinda livid about it.

My take is that it's more a case of bad reporting than bad science. I personally hate anything that comes out as "study suggests" ... meaningless drivel.

But while there are many forummers who are indeed animal lovers - I think as a whole its a more objective audience.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120522084326.htm#.T8kIICxASz0.facebook

So the question is:

Bad Science?
Bad Reporting?
Neither - dog people really oughtn't get their shorts in such a knot and take it on the chin - science doesn't lie!

 
cornixt
913350.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:23 pm Reply with quote

Oceans Edge wrote:
Woah has this one sparked a debate over in my FB. Most of the dog people (including my older sister who raises championship Schuzhund German Shepherds) are kinda livid about it.


Is she disagreeable? Is she interpreting it in both directions, i.e. also that people with aggressive dogs are disagreeable?

 
Spud McLaren
913351.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:25 pm Reply with quote

Not sure how to vote on this - none of the above?

My view is that disagreeable people very often have aggressive dogs; that's not because they bought them aggressive, but because they've made them aggressive by their treatment of them.

 
Oceans Edge
913352.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:32 pm Reply with quote

If I'm paraphrasing them right the concern is that it's doing a disservice to the animals more than anything.

my beloved and hallowed sister wrote:

V*, this study has so many flaws, it's laughable. Boxers as aggressive dogs?!! Nothing could be further from the truth. Wish they had not used a German Shepherd in their illustration! My GSDs are stable in temperament, character, friendly and outgoing, and wonderful with children, just don't try to attack me and you will find the other side. It is a training thing.

Oh yeah, and what citeria dd they use to determine which people are "disagreeable"? I am extremely disagreeable, LOL. But I have nice dogs.

It is clear that the researchers here have little actual experience and knowledge of aggressive dogs and disagreeable people!!! ROTFLMAO. They got money for this???!!!!


(I also think there's a little - 'how dare they imply that because I raise German Shepherds I'm a disagreeable person')

My own view is that the STUDY didn't say any of the above things, but that the reporting on the study could leave the public open to jumping to conclusions about both dog breeds and the kinds of people that own them, that the dog community has been trying to work past for decades.

 
Oceans Edge
913353.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:40 pm Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:
Not sure how to vote on this - none of the above?

My view is that disagreeable people very often have aggressive dogs; that's not because they bought them aggressive, but because they've made them aggressive by their treatment of them.


That would largely be the dog community's take on it.

So I'm thinking that the conclusion that "the study suggests that disagreeable people prefer aggressive dogs" would be a false conclusion, but I don't think it is entirely.

But the whole 'suggests' thing, and that there really can't be any real conclusions drawn that really further the understanding of dogs. It doesn't really clarify anything it just muddies it all a bit. Of course it wasn't meant to further the understanding of dogs, but rather people. The reputation of dogs just gets hit some in the crossfire.

 
aTao
913359.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:54 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
younger people who are disagreeable are more likely to prefer aggressive dogs


Oceans Edge, I guess your "older sister" is not a younger person and as such is not the subject of this rather garbled report of an apparently confused piece of research.

 
Oceans Edge
913369.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:00 pm Reply with quote

aye she is not .. she just found the whole business very distasteful

and I think you're spot on with "garbled report of an apparently confused piece of research" sums it up nicely I think

 
Moosh
913372.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:18 pm Reply with quote

I'm not sure what's garbled or confused about it. If anything, this study supports that idea that people who have "aggressive" dogs are not necessarily twats.

Quote:
It is assumed owners of aggressive dogs (or dogs perceived as aggressive) are antisocial show-offs. But we did not find persons who expressed a preference for aggressive dogs had committed more delinquent acts, or reported showing off more.


I honestly don't understand what the dog people are getting worked up about. I can't see where the offence is, let alone understand why they're offended.

 
Efros
913377.  Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:20 pm Reply with quote

I think the perception of breeds of aggressive dogs is flawed, my experience is as others have suggested, the aggression is usually the product of their owner. Usually, sometimes dogs are just bad, and I don't think there is a breed correlation there either.

 
Posital
913418.  Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:18 am Reply with quote

Can only agree with Efros and Spud...

Aggressive breeds... what bunkum!

Powerful/stong/large breeds, maybe.

 
swot
913424.  Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:55 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Disagreeable People Prefer Aggressive Dogs, Study Suggests
ScienceDaily (May 22, 2012) Aggressive dog ownership is not always a sign of attempted dominance or actual delinquency. A study carried out at the University of Leicester's School of Psychology has found that younger people who are disagreeable are more likely to prefer aggressive dogs, confirming the conventional wisdom that dogs match the personality of their owners.


Even the first paragraph seems confused. That's bad writing if nothing else.

 
Oceans Edge
913474.  Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:28 am Reply with quote

Posital wrote:
Can only agree with Efros and Spud...

Aggressive breeds... what bunkum!

Powerful/stong/large breeds, maybe.


Yep, and that's what's pissing off the dog people.

It may well be a perfectly valid study based on people's perceptions of what are aggressive breeds. It may even have some use within the psychology fields (but I'm not sure what). The problem is that studies like this tend to get dragged out to reinforce people's biases and back up stupid things like breed specific legislation.

So while it might be good science, the results seem at best ambiguous, or maybe not, either way I think it's dreadful reporting of a study that only suggests there's a trend, and doesn't actually prove anything.

 
Jenny
913503.  Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:23 am Reply with quote

I think a difficulty in doing this kind of research may be that aggression in large or strong breeds is just so much more noticeable than in small breeds, and the consequences of it more serious.

My stepdaughter breeds English Mastiffs, and currently has four of them (a litter is due in July...). She had her previous male dog put to sleep because despite careful training he had three times bitten somebody, each time in circumstances where there was serious provocation, but because of his size (weighing 180lb plus) it was not safe. She felt that his temperament was unsatisfactory and she didn't want to breed from him after the second bite, and had in fact taken care to keep him away from people after that, but he attacked somebody who unexpectedly entered her house when he was thought to be shut in a room but had got out. The man was bitten badly enough on his leg to have to go to hospital to have it stitched and to need an anti-tetanus jab. After that, she decided that it wasn't safe for him to be anywhere, so she couldn't reasonably sell him to anybody else, and had him put down. She was heartbroken.

However, if he'd been a chihuahua, his aggression might well have passed without notice at that level - ie one bite a year, two of them nips rather than actual bites.

 
Oceans Edge
913512.  Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:44 am Reply with quote

As an owner of a very large dog that isn't entirely popular with the neighbours (long story there), it's absolutely true.

Little problems in big dogs are BIG PROBLEMS

BIG PROBLEMS in little dogs are little problems.

The addendum to that is - once a bad dog, always a bad dog.

I may not like it. In fact on 'group dog walks' it's often irritated the piss outta me, but that is a fact of dog life.

Buddy is a BIG loud dog, who as a doggy teenager first rescued, was a HANDFUL and a half. He's been a model canine citizen now for over two years. (no he never bit anyone or anything but he did jump up on some folks), but the neighbours still hate him.... and he knows it. They yell and wave their arms and curse at him, and he barks back. It really doesn't help his doggie socialization.

It's rare the dog born with temperament issues that can't be resolved with training, but they do happen, it's a sad thing when it does.

 
NinOfEden
913732.  Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:40 am Reply with quote

How do we scientifically define a 'disagreeable' person? Are there certain personality traits that must be objectively measured over a certain level to define someone officially as A Bit of a Twat, or do you need a given number of acquaintances (say, 10) to sign a document saying 'I hereby confirm that I consider [name] to be a dickhead', perhaps?
Also, how dangerous must a dog be before these reserachers will define it as 'agressive'? There aren't many dogs that'll just jump up + attack someone for no reason, but most will at least growl at someone who kicks them.
I s'pose it stands to reason that people generally considered to not be very nice would tend to own a dog that was generally considered to be dangerous - not only, as has already been mentioned, because of the way the dog might be treated but because the Bad Guy might deliberatey get a dog that'll annoy the neighbours or make him look hard. But there's no scientific way to define a 'disagreeable' person or an 'agressive' dog.

 

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