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Anyone heard of the child abuse case Hollie Greig?

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Jenny
904829.  Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:20 pm Reply with quote

Well good for you, but most people are less saintly than that, and the law reflects what most people's responses would be to such allegations. And on this site I do my best to keep us within the law.

 
joeontheland
904830.  Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:32 pm Reply with quote

Anyway, can we get back to the topic within suitable constraints obviously.

I will co-operate entirely and I will say at this moment that I do not convict to the accusations made. They could be entirely false, and I keep an open mind ready for new information which may suggest this.

I am therefore not accusing anyone.

Hence, there should be no issue

 
suze
904832.  Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:53 pm Reply with quote

Joe, let me ask you a question. While this story has not been covered in the mainstream news media since 2009, a Google search reveals plenty of more recent material about it.

I won't link to that material; anyone who wants to can find it for themselves. (NB Some sources name persons said to have committed heinous acts, but who have been charged with no crime. Please will no one repeat those names here.)

Most of the accounts of the matter to be found on the Internet are blog posts or are websites set up by unidentified persons who appear to have axes to grind one way or another. There is one account in a quasi-anarchist newspaper published out of Gaza, and there is some coverage on David Icke's website.

Neither quasi-anarchists out of Gaza nor David Icke are always considered as entirely reliable sources. If the truth of the matter is as you assert, why is no other media outlet covering the story?

OK, one answer you might give is "Because they've been told not to" or "Because they don't want to get sued". And as regards some parts of the news media, I'll buy those answers. But The Guardian and Private Eye, in particular, don't usually take too much notice of people who tell them what to do or threaten to sue them. They do not seem to be covering the story either.

 
CB27
904836.  Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:01 pm Reply with quote

Scotland Herald don't have a reputation for cowering from the courts neither :)

 
suze
904841.  Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:24 pm Reply with quote

Why is the name "Ryan Giggs" floating across my mind ...?

Incidentally, there is no such thing as a super-injunction in Scotland. Westminster wants such injunctions granted in England and Wales also to apply to Scotland, but it hasn't happened and Alex Salmond says that it won't happen while he is First Minister.

So there isn't one of those preventing the Scottish media from talking about this matter.

 
exnihilo
904917.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:05 am Reply with quote

joeontheland wrote:

Can you imagine our government bombing white people in the way it has bombed brown people?


Dunno, maybe someone from Dresden or Cologne could imagine it.

 
CB27
904937.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:58 am Reply with quote

The problem with conspiracy theories is that you tend to have to ignore 99% of the contrary hard evidence and claim that only the 1% dubious evidence is genuine.

 
barbados
905002.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:41 am Reply with quote

Another thing about a good conspiracy is it has to be plausible.

Now about this Neil Armstrong fella:..........

 
barbados
905006.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:50 am Reply with quote

Another thing about a good conspiracy is it has to be plausible.

Now about this Neil Armstrong fella:..........

 
Neotenic
905007.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:55 am Reply with quote

I think this article is most instructive.

As it tells us, there is simply not enough reliable or credible evidence for the case to be pursued through the courts. There is no point in anybody going to the time and expense of bringing a case that patently won't stand up to cross-examination.

It also tells us that Holly has received compensation from CICA despite the fact that no case has been brought. This doesn't strike me as being the action of a corrupt system.

 
Jenny
905015.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:37 am Reply with quote

Quote:
“Crown counsel have considered all the available information and decided that there is insufficient credible, reliable and admissible evidence to justify criminal proceedings in respect of these allegations.”

Despite no charges ever being brought, Hollie received £13,500 compensation from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority in April last year.

It is understood that followed evidence from a Grampian detective inspector, who described Hollie as “a truthful witness to the best of her ability and an entirely innocent victim”.


I think the point joeontheland was making is that he considers the system itself to be corrupt, insofar as some of the people who were accused were part of the legal system, and therefore he disputes the statement in that first paragraph quoted from Neo's link. However, unless we think that every member of the Crown Prosecution Service (if that's what they call it in Scotland) is corrupt or has been leaned on, that's rather a stretch.

I am somewhat surprised that the CICA could compensate Hollie when there has been no trial or conviction, and also think that if her allegations were truthful £13,500 is stupidly low as compensation for fourteen years of abuse, and if they are not then no compensation should have been paid. On what grounds was compensation paid?

 
Neotenic
905028.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:12 am Reply with quote

Fortunately, I linked to the CICA documentation just a few days ago, so it was nice and close at hand.

Reading through the opening section, it does seem that it is not necessary for a conviction to have been secured in order that some compensation can be paid. I guess there must be a lower burden of proof - however, I would also imagine that this would limit the amount of the compensation.

I tend to agree with your overall sentiment too - and it is sad to think that there are those that are more willing to believe that the entire system is corrupt than that a case like this, with the best will in the world, may be impossible to bring in the absence of credible evidence.

And, indeed, an environment where convictions could be made despite a paucity of evidence is one where corruption is far more likely to flourish - just as it does in places (like Libya, Venezuela or China) where political opponents are/were incarcerated on jumped-up or fictional charges to keep them out of the way.

 
exnihilo
905041.  Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:57 am Reply with quote

Compensation is (or can be) paid if someone has suffered harm as a result of a criminal act irrespective of whether a conviction can be secured. I checked with a friend who works for CICA in Scotland.

This all smacks rather too much of someone with an axe to grind who, having been told that the case can go no further, has decided that the person that said that, and the person who said they were right, and so on, were all in on it.

I am amused by the notion on many of the tub-thumping (and near identical) websites associated with it that Levy & McRae have some species of monopoly or some control of the judicial process. That'll come as a surprise to the many, many other Scottish law firms.

 
Neotenic
905407.  Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:40 am Reply with quote

Just meandering back through this thread, and just for the heck of it, I'd just like to make the following points.

Quote:
Isn't this then fascism or corporatocracy...


One theme that is found through the states that did actually give fascism a go was the nationalisation of major services and/or industries.

We can be sure that, whatever corportations may want from governements, fascism certainly isn't it.

Quote:
Because my heart is bigger than my head...


Shame you don't think with your heart, really.

 
CB27
915359.  Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:03 pm Reply with quote

This subject has popped up in a FB group I'm on because Robert Green was arrested again, and the usual "ooh, isn't what happened to the girl terrible", "this is a terrible conspiracy" and suchlike comments were made by people.

I pointed out that we're all relying on the words of individuals and that none of us bothered to look up the facts to check on them, and got abit of crap for that, so I looked to see if anyone else bothered to check the evidence.

There are a few people that have, but I'll link to one whose blog I'd read in the past and I put a little more trust in:

http://www.annaraccoon.com/madeleine-mccann/robert-green-hollie-greig/

If anyone still believing this story wants to address the points raised, that would be a start.

 

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