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Abortion in the USA

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886844.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:59 am Reply with quote

Sorry, am suffering from a mix of getting over a throat infection and having had a "stay at home" night out session (due to feeling too crap to go out) that's cleared out much of my drinks cabinet, so was thinking this is all a response to the article, I wasn't paying attention to personal attacks.

I realise my comments might sound personal at times, but they're usually meant to be aimed at the posts and not the writers because I don't really know any of you guys apart from what you write on this forum. It's only when I finally recognise a single poster posting in a prticular way that might bug me that I might lash out personally, and I know I've done it to you bob, but I guess we're as bad as each other there :)

When people put personal comments as an initial reply, I try not to take it personally (I sometimes forget), it might be meant as a lighthearted comment (a sort of "yo mama" ribbing), and if it was really meant then it's flown by me without me noticing, so it's a waste of someone else's time :)

886848.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:16 am Reply with quote

Let's look at it this way:

Was she using contraception? I haven't seen any information as to that. She obviously gets pregnant easily, she has three kids already and none of the dads on the scene, except to pay a piddling amount of child support. It does not seem to me that she was someone who used contraception on a regular basis.

She didn't know how far along she was.

A quick trip to the doctor would have ascertained that. There is no information as to whether she sought out any medical attention regarding this pregnancy. If she didn't, I'd be highly suspicious that she intended on aborting this child all along, as if she had sought any medical attention it would be recorded. Also, if she had obtained some medical help, perhaps she might have been given the chance to put the child up for adoption once she found she was so far along. There would be another couple out there desperate for a child who could have easily taken it into their home. If after three children she was still getting pregnant, perhaps permanent contraception should have been considered, again, although I don't know the US medical system, are there clinics/doctors who could offer this to her given her situation?

She said she had no money but was going to pay someone back for a $200 illegally obtained abortion pill, also putting her sister at risk of prosecution?

If she was on such a low income, are there not clinics that will supply contraception for women such as herself? And did she choose a partner so poorly he couldn't even at least wear a condom?

She obviously lives in a very conservative part of the US. What did she think was going to happen if she aborted a foetus and then told someone about it? Did she ever consider that if she was ever found out, that the person she told could also be considered an accessory and have their own life ruined?

If she is being persecuted where she lives and it's got to the point she's had to resign her job, she needs to find a way to get out of that area (barring her being told she is not allowed to leave). She lives among people who obviously do not have a heck of a lot of tolerance for this kind of thing.

On the flipside:

As stated, contraception is not perfect. We do not know if she was using contraception or even if, in that conservative part of the world, contraception was freely available.

If a woman is desperate enough to not want to admit they're pregnant, they can block it out or refuse to deal with it, hence possibly why she was so far along when this happened.

Living in a conservative part of the US, she probably was never going to get much help or tolerance.

As for the friend who dobbed her in... I can see both sides. She was obviously afraid of the consequences for her if she got involved in this, and so would I, but on the other hand, did she have to call the police straight out? Perhaps there could have been another avenue taken so it wouldn't have gone this far.

Does the abortion pill show up in the foetus? Perhaps she simply could have said she didn't realise she was pregnant and had a miscarriage... although that's pretty full scale lying, is it any worse than what she's done now? Involving other people and it leading to her becoming ostracised?

How sad she lives in a community that claims to love God, but has no tolerance or forgiveness in its heart which I thought was at the core of Christian beliefs.

The article below goes into further depth than the one 'yorz linked to, providing more detail and answers.

No easy answers to this story.

886849.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:42 am Reply with quote

The question of whether she could have gone to a doctor to hceck up, this costs money in the US if you don't have insurance.

The $200 for the pills is actually a really cheap option compared to anything medical.

The pills weren't obtained illegally, the law broken was a state law on self termination.

886850.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:44 am Reply with quote

If self abortion is illegal, I was just wondering if the sister could be viewed as aiding and abetting that.

886851.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:45 am Reply with quote

It mentions in the article that the sister is now not speking to her as she doesn't wan't to be drawn into any legal case, so it might have been brought up as a question.

886869.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:16 am Reply with quote

At first, customers at the dry cleaners where she worked started ignoring her. Then they refused to be served by her. "The more it got in the paper, the more I got dirty looks and the more people started asking for someone else to help them," she says. "Eventually, I quit."

The above seems to have escaped the attention of various commentators on this forum. I was not only concerned about the various legal repercussions, but also about the reaction of the locals. Whether the whole article smacks of (sub) Mills & Boon or not - the fact that this lady felt under so much pressure that she had to quit her job, thus having to live on even less income, is quite sad.

Spud McLaren
886910.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:42 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
By the way, bob, you really ought to stop using copies of the Mail and Express for bedsheets. They're too small and the print rubs off too easily.

Maybe so Spud and perhaps you should stop taking your cue from the reactions to my posts and actually consider the basic facts. Just take a look at the original posted article and ask yourself what questions would you have asked?
On reflection, bob, I think I would first have asked myself What business is this of mine? and, having obtained the only supportable answer, moved on.

886993.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:18 pm Reply with quote

It is often very hard indeed for women - especially poor women with inadequate access to transport - to get to a clinic that will prescribe mifepristone. They then can have difficulty in some areas in finding a pharmacist who will fill that prescription. Contraception costs maybe $1000 a year, and a 'permanent solution' is probably way beyond many people's means. Whether she had access to health care except on an emergency basis (and pregnancy wouldn't qualify as that) is doubtful - it varies from state to state. There is actually a law that says federal (ie central government) funding cannot be used to pay for abortions.

I'm not remotely surprised that she took the risk she did.

886994.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:26 pm Reply with quote

Was trying to read more about the background, and in my search about news on abortions in the US, I noticed a couple about the state of Virginia voting in a law that requires anyone wanting an abortion to have an ultrasound prior to termination and be offered to view the images.

On it's own, this might not seem to bad for most people as several states have been adopting this measure in the last few years as a way of putting women off going ahead with abortions, and some states (like Texas) even require images and sounds to actually be played back to the woman.

However, a big problem with the law Virginia is looking to implement is that the state does not allow abortions after 14 weeks, and this will mean most women cannot have a normal ultrasound over the pelvis, it has to be an invasive procedure called "transvaginal ultrasound", which some people have likened to giving doctors license to sexually assault women in order to allow them to have a procedure they feel they need.

Apart from anything else, it places even more costs on the whole procedure, which can mean women from poor backgrounds will have even less choice.

887076.  Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:58 am Reply with quote

There is also the issue that it's perfectly possible to get to beyond 14 weeks of pregnancy without knowing you are pregnant. Some women have bleeds like light periods in the first few months of pregnancy. Some women rarely have periods at all, or very irregular ones. Especially if you haven't been pregnant before, pregnancy symptoms are so variable between women that it's far from obvious.

887084.  Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:00 am Reply with quote

To be honest as I read each post my opinion tends to flip to whatever that person is arguing (a sign that my opinion isn't deeply held or that the posters are being very effective debaters?).

The one thing that hasn't altered is MY thoughts on what transpired when she phoned her sister. Maybe she said something like "I didn't think it would be as bad as this".... " there is <bleep> blood everywhere "..."what am I going to do?" the only way the sister could think of to get her aid was dialling 911 and from that the police became involved.
So concern for her sister's welfare rather than an attempt not to be considered 'aiding and abetting'.

887086.  Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:14 am Reply with quote

I thought she rang a friend, not her sister? Wasn't it her sister who got her the tablet?

887090.  Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:41 am Reply with quote

I read in another article that she rang a friend who then rang his sister who then rang the police.

887129.  Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:01 pm Reply with quote

OK then the exact chain of events are different to how I described. So just change it to she phoned her friend who not knowing what to do phoned the sister with the "she is in a right state" schtick so then the sister TO GET HELP NOT DOB HER SISTER IN phoned 911.

887131.  Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:05 pm Reply with quote

Her brother, you mean. :)


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