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Arbalest
890029.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:17 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:


I shall try not to

Good good. And all I have read from you would assume that.
suze wrote:
There are assholes in every country, it's fair to say.

Absolutely!

suze wrote:
For instance, one of "my" countries is Poland, but I certainly can't be doing with the attitudes that many Poles hold towards people of colour. Sure, you'll sometimes hear those attitudes expressed in England and Wales too - but by now they are considered unacceptable in polite company, which is not yet the case in Poland.

It will be a long time before a football player or a motorcycle speedway rider - they being the main spectator sports in Poland - comes out as gay. To misquote Reginald D Hunter, it's only in very recent years that Poland has accepted a footballer coming out as black.


And that (assuming it's truth- really not trying to be awkward here, but can't see any way else to say it) is something to take into account in what you say in conversations, the way you vote (if you live there) and how you behave in Poland.

 
suze
890033.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:28 pm Reply with quote

Oh, it certainly is.

As a Polish citizen I have the right to vote in Polish elections, but the only time I've actually done was when I happened to be in Poland on polling day. Since the party for which I voted on that occasion in 2007 no longer exists, it's fair to say that my contribution to Poland's electoral history has been minimal !

As for how one behaves when there, this can be tricky. "My city" in Poland is Gdańsk - one of Poland's most "Westernized" cities - and most of my friends there are teachers or journalists. Accordingly, you'll not be surprised to learn that the Poles I know do not hold the unreconstructed views which are otherwise still common through the former Soviet bloc.

A woman on her own just would not go into one of the more traditional blue collar drinking dives that Gdańsk has to offer. But a group of women who give as good as they get just might (i.e. have done) - and even so, yes, I've had to bite my lip a couple of times.

 
Arbalest
890034.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:51 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Oh, it certainly is..


And the rest of the quote, as it were.

I am sure you are doing your bit when you are in Poland, and by what I have read of you on these forums (if that makes sense!) can't think of a better person to be doing it, however little impact one person can have!

But still has little relevance to do with how you would behave in Wales.... (resisting impulse to put emoticons in text!)

Indeed, it is necessary to make a stand, and to decide when it it is best, and how to make that stand does depend on the society you are in.

Many people in Wales make a point of saying that they are more inclusive of people of differing colours, faiths and erm, sexual inclinations? Sounds a bit clumsy.. than people in England. I have never been completely convinced by this, though the situation (in my view) is different in many ways. That is why I was interested in your views regarding Wales, as it is always good to get another persons view to add to or challenge your own.

Anyhow, thank you for your input.

 
soup
890047.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:43 pm Reply with quote

Arbalest wrote:

Apologies for whatever offence the emoticons caused. I rather liked your reply, and chuckled at it, as it happens.


None needed I took the wrong meaning[1] from your post it "got my goat" and I became (became?) a bit of an arse.

[1] I read it as, that you disapproved of me spreading a sweeping generalisation as a joke and that you were only using emoticons to cover any later accusations of nastiness by saying " it was a joke".

 
Arbalest
890097.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:56 am Reply with quote

soup wrote:

None needed I took the wrong meaning[1] from your post it "got my goat" and I became (became?) a bit of an arse.


No, no. My fault for not being careful how some attempts at humour appear in this form of communication.

soup wrote:
[1] I read it as, that you disapproved of me spreading a sweeping generalisation as a joke and that you were only using emoticons to cover any later accusations of nastiness by saying " it was a joke".


It was meant to be a tongue-in cheek by being over the top gibe at/with suze. Another failed attempt at humour!

 
dr.bob
890131.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:23 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
I have seen an individual (I didn't know him) being refused entry to a public house in Wales because "we don't have queer boys in here".

I have not seen the latter thing happen in England; I have not heard a football player make the former comment. In neither case is this to say that they have never happened.


Well, the former certainly has

 
soup
890160.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:17 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:

Well, the former certainly has


I seem to remember that . Was the staff/land person not saying it wasn't that they were gay but 'even' a heterosexual couple, who had been asked to stop snogging several times and didn't, would have been ejected? Whilst the couple said they were ejected for being a same sex couple who were engaged in a one off light kiss.
Didn't follow it closely enough to form an opinion beyond the fact that the gay couple said it was a kiss the bar staff said it was a series of full on snogs so I started thinking of perspectives etc rather than the sexuality of those involved.

 
Sadurian Mike
890200.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:36 am Reply with quote

Having just read the article I must admit that I wondered whether it was because they were same-sex or just because they were a little too enthusiastic.

After all, a 'kiss' can be anything from a peck on the cheek to a full-on writhing and groping session.

 
Arbalest
890239.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:21 am Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:

After all, a 'kiss' can be anything from a peck on the cheek to a full-on writhing and groping session.


Absolutely. It's equality of treatment which is important. Which does beg the question how his could be actually determined- a panel of judges viewing cctv of people of various sexes kissing in the pub and giving scores out of ten? Over seven and your out, same for all combinations of sexes?

Incidentally, where was the pub you mentioned, suze? Just so I can make sure I don't give it any money, if nothing else!

 
dr.bob
890248.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:31 am Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
After all, a 'kiss' can be anything from a peck on the cheek to a full-on writhing and groping session.


According to the original story, the kissing was described by a by-stander as "snogging, but it wasn't heavy petting"

 
Arbalest
890272.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:43 pm Reply with quote

Arbalest wrote:

Incidentally, where was the pub you mentioned, suze? Just so I can make sure I don't give it any money, if nothing else!


Thinking about it, you probably wouldn't want to give the exact pub out publicly (so to speak), especially as you weren't the one involved, so scratch that query.

 
suze
890277.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:18 pm Reply with quote

I won't give its name, but it was in Llandudno.

 
Arbalest
890280.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:43 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
I won't give its name, but it was in Llandudno.


Ah, well. I have banned myself from a few pubs due to attitudes, but unreasonable of me to think you would give the name.

Would be wrong of me to boycott pubs in Llandudno or Llandudno itself for being homophobic on this basis, but thanks for the info.

 
T J Alex
891639.  Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:13 am Reply with quote

Personally it pees me off when people start snogging in public, whether they're Gay, Straight, or Space Aliens.

It reminds me of schoolchildren desperately seeking attention, or if they're real saddos, trying to shock.

The fact is that whiles its nice to snog, its always seems a bit "Icky" watching two other people slobber over each other.

And I have actually seen hetro couples asked to leave pubs in the past for doing so (At the request of the other customers )

A quick aside on people being refused service in Welsh pubs.

Back in the seventies, while on H.M.S. TIger, we docked in Cardiff for a fun run.

Within minutes of landing I was heading out the dockyard gates having never been to Wales before, let alone Cardiff, and decided to nip into the nearest pub on my way into town.

It was daytime and the pub was three quarters empty .

But if there had been a piano player he'd have stopped when I entered.

I went up to the bar, where the only customer there was me, but the barman (probably the landlord)couldn't see me or hear me, inspite of my efforts to get served.

He was white, I was white, but everyone else in the pub wasn't.

I soon took the hint and left.

 
soup
891675.  Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:41 pm Reply with quote

T J Alex wrote:

But if there had been a piano player he'd have stopped when I entered.


A pub I went into didn't have a piano player either We were going down to a set of tank ranges to "do" a B1 dems (demolitions)course. There were three of us, all in green kit [1] , we had decided we didn't want to freeze in the back of a 4 tonner so we all got in one of the corporals cars to drive down. We stopped at a pub on the way down, and when we walked in everything stopped even the guys playing pool stopped to have a look at us. 3 quickly swallowed halves later we were on our way again.

[1] We were cunningly disguised by having a civvie jacket on top and not wearing our berets.

 

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