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Largest man-made structure.

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iamannoying.com
843226.  Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:58 am Reply with quote

In an earlier series, Fresh Kills was supposed to be the largest single man-made structure. Mr. Carr then mentioned Holland, which is not a single structure and it would only apply to half the country, i.e. parts below sealevel.

I can refer to my recent messages in the General Ignorance forum, just search for "Oostelijk Flevoland". In the Holidays-episode mr. Fry mentions the Haarlemmermeer as the largest man-made structure (not single), according to some people that is. Unfortunately this is very wrong, even if it has to be a single structure.

Oostelijk Flevoland is about 3 times the size of the Haarlemmermeer. If it doesn't have to be a single structure, add at least Zuidelijk Flevoland to it, which is over 2 times as large as the Haarlemmermeer. Add the Noordoostpolder, also larger (not verified) to obtain the province Flevoland. And even Flevoland is part of a far larger man-made structure, the Zuiderzeewerken.

The quoted "some people" are wrong, just Oostelijk Flevoland is far larger. Please search my other mesages for maps with size indications. As far as I know, Oostelijk Flevoland is the largest (single!) man-made structure with a surface of 540 square kilometres, perhaps even more.

Trivia: Just like the Haarlemmermeer Oostelijk Flevoland also has an airport near Lelystad. But Schiphol is the main one, Lelystad Airport is more of an EasyJet or Ryanair-one. The Zuiderzeewerken included the Markerwaard, perhaps (or not) the biggest land part, which was started (Houtribdijk) but cancelled. Plans existed to move the Schiphol airport to that area.

Anyway, in order of relevancy and size:

1. Zuiderzeewerken (not a single structure)
2, Flevoland (not a single structure)
3. Oostelijk en Zuidelijk Flevoland (connected, not a single structure)
4. Oostelijk Flevoland (largest man-made single structure, 540 km2 of reclaimed land)
5. Noordoostpolder (same, 480 km2, may include 2 small former I-themed islands)
6. Zuidelijk Flevoland (same, 430 km2)
7. Wieringermeer (largest single structure in the former Holland/Noord-Holland, 200 km2)
8. Maybe the Haarlemmermeer, 179 km2 (counting land only, 186 km2 when also counting the water)

I haven't checked the status of the numbers 5, 6 and 7, but the H-themed Haarlemmermeer will be about number 8. At best. It sure ain't the largest man-made structure.

O well, just one of the images from my other messages advocating Oostelijk Flevoland. The green bits and mentioned dikes are part of the Zuiderzeewerken, not to mention a.o. the IJsselmeer (not Ijsselmeer, I-themed) and the Markermeer:

[url]http://www.onrust.de/zuiderzeewerken.jpg[/url]

No matter which parts do count, there are many Zuiderzeewerken-parts far, far larger than the Haarlemmermeer (Harlem's Lake). It's not the largest man-made structure in Netherland, It's not even the largest one in (Noord-) Holland, i.e. the Haarlemmermeer isn't the largest man-made structure at all.

 
'yorz
846642.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:40 am Reply with quote

http://www.onrust.de/zuiderzeewerken.jpg

Link seems broken.

Anyroads: semantics-time.
I have problems with the word structure in this instance.
Project or system -yes, but not structure.

All the abovementioned areas are naturally formed. The water was drained. The Zuiderzee Works are a manmade system of dams, land reclamation and water drainage works, the largest hydraulic engineering project undertaken by the Netherlands during the twentieth century.
The total reclaimed land surface may be large, but it ain't a structure.
The land wasn't constructed; it already was, albeit under water until the project started.

 
Alfred E Neuman
846655.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:53 am Reply with quote

I agree with 'yorz.

 
'yorz
846659.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:57 am Reply with quote

<doffs hat, but won't -cock>

 
iamannoying.com
846744.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:34 am Reply with quote

Quote:
I have problems with the word structure in this instance.


And I may have (virtual) problems with you using resources containing errors. I already pointed that out earlier (and stopped counting).

You're mentioning the Zuiderzee Works and you're just using wikipedia instead of actual knowledge (never mind, I didn't expect you would be an expert, and you just have an opinion, thanks for expressing it, and you also never claimed to be an expert). The Zuiderzee Works is a project indeed, no doubt about that, consisting of single man-made structures.

If the Zuiderzee Works was a single structure, a chance like cancelling the Markerwaard wouldn't be possible.

Quote:
All the abovementioned areas are naturally formed.


Not at all. None of the dikes is "naturally formed". The draining was just one step. Layers of land were added, and so on.

[quote]The land wasn't constructed[/wrong]

Wrong again, for one you aren't standing on the floor on the see. A new ditch still shows the top layer of shells on a former sand bank, your point of reference ("just the natural floor of the sea"), about 2 feet below the man-made surface in that area (Roggenbot). Just 2 feet, a sand bank is higher than the rest.

The only natural features in the province Flevoland are 2 small former islands, Schokland and Urk. And yes, creating it involved more than "water draining". Of course "sand" itself isn't man-made.

This may be my last message here (if I want to discuss Wikipedia items, I'll join the wikipedia community), but you're also replying in the wrong forum.

Mr. Fry mentioned the Haarlemmermeer in the H series, which is smaller than 4 of the the single man-made structures, parts of the Zuiderzee Works project. The Zuiderzee Works certainly is not a single structure, but the components certainly are. For example, parts weren't added to already existing parts..

I would agree with you if I had mentioned the man-made IJsselmeer. But you just have an opinion, based on a faulty wikipedia article (regarding another subject, the Works), without any specific knowledge of the area. People whom agree with you also clearly have no knowledge of the area.

Anyway, please look at this. It doesn't look like a sea floor to me, after just "draining water". Albeit the quality is poor, it gives an impression:

Videos, driving in the area

It's fine you're doffing your hat for somebody who also has no kwowledge of the area at all, and has just an opinion too, as long as you're aware of the fact that it's a no-brainer for me to apply that word to the area, using my knowledge of the area. I happen to know what I'm talking about:

Doff in Ens, Noordoostpolder.

No, it's t(w)o doff

Allright, finding a "hat" in the area would take longer than the 0 seconds it took to find a doff. For a hat, try Urk. Extreme Christianity and wearing hats go well together there, so it'll be possible to find a shop selling hats in that area.

So long, I'm gonna join wikipedia instead.[/url]


Last edited by iamannoying.com on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:20 am; edited 2 times in total

 
exnihilo
846751.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:58 am Reply with quote

How is this the wrong forum? Surely one replies in the forum which contains the message to which one is replying. I grant you that this topic has spread to every thread and it could be confusing, but that much at least seems straightforward.

 
iamannoying.com
846784.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:59 am Reply with quote

exnihilo wrote:
How is this the wrong forum?


Fair enough. This is the H series, which mentioned the H-themed Haarlemmermeer. Not a real quote from mr. Fry, right after talking about the largest steam engine in the world:

"According to some people, the Haarlemmermeer is the largest single man-made structure in the world".

IF the Haarlemmermeer (179 km2) is the largest single man-made structure in the world, it's a bit strange that there is a similar, but larger single man-made structure, located in the same province, Noord-Holland (Wieringermeer, 200 km2)

QI sort of got it wrong 3 times, but the discussion based on wikipedia (I already pointed out errors regarding their Zuiderzee Works topic, and stopped counting) and opinions about the Zuiderzee Works has nothing to do with the H-themed Haarlemmermeer.

Albeit it would be silly (for one, QI never said they, they quoted "some people"), one could claim, on-topic, that the Haarlemmermeer isn't a single man-made structure. Nobody says that. If it's a single man-made structure, it's a bit strange to refer to another subject unrelated to the Haarlemmermeer. The Haarlemmermeer (19th century) is not related to the Zuiderzee Works (20th century) that was mentioned.

It's an on-topic "qibble" to mention that the H-themed Haarlemmermeer isn't the largest man-made structure. It's an completely off-topic discussion to claim that the Zuiderzee Works aren't a man-made structure.

The only right remark was the one stating that the Zuiderzee Works as a whole is a project, not a structure. But as far as I know, nobody ever said that the whole Works are a structure. The Zuiderzee Works, nor the wiki "information", is related to the H-themed Haarlemmermeer.

"Your" uneducated resource, wikipedia, has nothing to do with the Haarlemmermeer. I'll point out one of the errors again, under the first image. They got the sea ("North Sea") wrong. You too, you're using it as an unverified resource. Minor detail, wrong sea. Never mind noticing it, just accept a doffed hat and you're done. Sometimes real knowledge is required, and this knowledge has nothing to do with the H-themed Haarlemmermeer.

The only relationship between the Haarlemmermeer and the Zuiderzee Works is that a similar (single) part of the Zuiderzee Works, in the same province, is larger than the Haarlemmermeer. Eighter way, the Haarlemmermeer isn't the largest single man-made structure in the world. Impossible. That's on-topic, the rest is wiki-based bogus and off-topic.

But it's okay with me to continue discussing chickens now, or "you", or ... Regarding the wrong sea, I'll join wikipedia's community to be flamed for changing it to read "Wadden Sea" instead of the "North Sea". I couldn't care less, just like I don't care about unverified opinions based on wikipedia's collection of errors.

 
exnihilo
846795.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:47 am Reply with quote

I think perhaps you need to calm down.

 
Neotenic
846797.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:52 am Reply with quote

Quote:
It's fine you're doffing your hat for somebody who also has no kwowledge of the area at all, and has just an opinion too, as long as you're aware of the fact that it's a no-brainer for me to apply that word to the area, using my knowledge of the area. I happen to know what I'm talking about:


Just to be clear, you're not the only person that has contributed to this thread that has 'kwowledge' of things Dutch.

 
'yorz
846837.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:17 am Reply with quote

Quote:
You're mentioning the Zuiderzee Works and you're just using wikipedia instead of actual knowledge (never mind, I didn't expect you would be an expert, and you just have an opinion, thanks for expressing it, and you also never claimed to be an expert).


Apart from being a silly hothead, you also can't read. I mentioned the word 'semantics'. I didn't consult Wiki- or other pedias.
Other forummers will have got used to my predilection for roots and proper meanings of words, in whatever language.
My point was the fact that I wasn't happy with the use of the word structure in context of this topic.
I ain't an expert on the technical aspect of Zuiderzee- and other works, but I do have an instinctive feel for words and think it very important to use the right ones in the right place.

Ergo: I do not think that the Zuiderzee Works belong in the same category as the Great Wall of China. The latter is a structure, the former isn't.
I don't mind to be wrong, but would appreciate to be proven such by means of a well-wrought answer, not the rantings of a boffin with an uncomfortably long dick.

 
Bondee
846900.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:47 pm Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
a boffin with an uncomfortably long dick.


I think you're doing him a favour. From what I've read of his rantings so far, he's over-compensating for an incredibly small one.

 
'yorz
846924.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:05 pm Reply with quote

Na. A dick that long that the owner trips over it. Ego and hot air.

 
aTao
846936.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:56 pm Reply with quote

How deep is the imported mud? Surely if the dikes and new topsoil is to be considered a structure (debatable) then the relevant measure of size must surely be volume, so how deep is the imported mud?

 
'yorz
846940.  Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:17 pm Reply with quote

As said, I'm no expert whatsoever, so it would take some digging (hehe) to find these data.

Some related site are in English, so if anybody wants to help with the search, please feel free.

 
Alfred E Neuman
847016.  Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:52 am Reply with quote

iamannoying.com wrote:
It's an on-topic "qibble" to mention that the H-themed Haarlemmermeer isn't the largest man-made structure. It's an completely off-topic discussion to claim that the Zuiderzee Works aren't a man-made structure.


Bollocks.

 

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