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Gun laws

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PDR
838279.  Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:15 am Reply with quote

Bealzybub wrote:
Your bias makes you appear stupid.


WHoosh!

Quote:
Aside from the 2000+ that the federal government here ordered the gun stores to sell to the cartels recently it appears that all the numbers are skewed.


Source?

PDR

 
Bealzybub
838404.  Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:36 am Reply with quote

MP5s are made under license in the UK and also in at least half a dozen other countries.

So then as that applies to this: You misunderstand - the guns are made by right-thinking americans to defend the free world against all those socialist drug cartels.

I guess I must be missing something. Right thinking Americans in the UK and at least a half dozen other countries? Why does the UK and the other countries allow right thinking Americans to manufacture, in this case the MP5's and sell them to the drug cartels in Mexico.

 
exnihilo
838407.  Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:48 am Reply with quote

Is it just me or has this gone completely off the rails?

 
CB27
838440.  Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:28 am Reply with quote

Of course it has. When presented with a number of questions that challenge the position of wide gun ownership, advocates will look to challenge unrelated questions so as to derail any real debate.

 
PDR
838516.  Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:54 pm Reply with quote

Bealzybub wrote:
So then as that applies to this: You misunderstand - the guns are made by right-thinking americans to defend the free world against all those socialist drug cartels.

I guess I must be missing something.


I suspect the something you are missing is that my remark (the bit you've quoted in italics) was a piece of ribald sarcasm rather than an assertion.

PDR

 
Bealzybub
838572.  Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:44 pm Reply with quote

Of course it has. When presented with a number of questions that challenge the position of wide gun ownership, advocates will look to challenge unrelated questions so as to derail any real debate.

Um, uh, I was quite happy discussing the topic at hand. If you follow back through the thread you will see in fact that it was others that diverted away from the topic of gun control.

But I do understand now. I get blamed for what others have done and the off topic scenario diversions were only sarcasm.

I'm good with that, I dont have to defend my position because I have no agenda.

 
Neotenic
838573.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:24 am Reply with quote

Sorry buddy, but I think that 'I think private gun ownership is a good idea' counts as an agenda.

 
exnihilo
838578.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:10 am Reply with quote

As is "I like the idea of your country, if only you all had guns".

 
CB27
838582.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:53 am Reply with quote

Putting aside any agenda different people have, there were a number of points which were completely left in the air because you chose to ignore them.

You were challenged a number of times on the assumption that curbing gun ownership is a socialist idea and therefore somehow evil.

You were asked about the concept of threatening people with firearms if they break into your property. You mentioned how you were able to disarm and take a weapon off someone who was pointing it at you, imagine if this happened with a burglar taking a weapon off a homeowner and kills them.

You were challenged on equating lack of gun ownership and limiting the police from carrying guns, with accepting that neither are able to protect private property.

There were a number of other questions as well, but all you decided write about was who makes weapons, somehow assuming that any guns used for the wrong purposes are made by other nations, and US weapons only used for the right reason.

That's what's meant by derailing the discussion.

 
Bealzybub
838675.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:04 am Reply with quote

There were a number of other questions as well, but all you decided write about was who makes weapons, somehow assuming that any guns used for the wrong purposes are made by other nations, and US weapons only used for the right reason.

Actually on that topic it was insinuated that all the guns in the hands of mexican drug gangs were manufactured by "right thinking Americans.

As is "I like the idea of your country, if only you all had guns".

I never made that statement.

Sorry buddy, but I think that 'I think private gun ownership is a good idea' counts as an agenda.

You dont have to be sorry to me.

What it boils down to is this, read back through the thread with this in mind. You've been stripped of your rights and seemingly defend that stripping. We, as of now have not been so there is nothing on my part to defend, IE the lack of agenda.

I'm an avid shooter and outdoorsman. There have been too many times to count where while out in the woods and forests have come across bear, cougar and yes even the nefarious felon plying their trade in one manner or another. So it is the position of you all that I should continue as I do but without my second amendment right to carry a weapon. I'm good with that, I dont agree but I'm good with you're opinion as it applies to your own situations. Guns scare the crap out of you so stay away from them.

Most of you have misconstrued almost every statement I've made in defense of your rights being stripped. When it wasnt a misconstruance it was an admitted piece of "sarcasm".

You were challenged a number of times on the assumption that curbing gun ownership is a socialist idea and therefore somehow evil.

Stripping Americans of their constitutional rights is the road to socialism, sorry for being remiss.

You were asked about the concept of threatening people with firearms if they break into your property. You mentioned how you were able to disarm and take a weapon off someone who was pointing it at you, imagine if this happened with a burglar taking a weapon off a homeowner and kills them.

Is there a question there? When I took that weapon I was unarmed, I wasnt legally allowed to carry a weapon at that time and really didnt have much choice, the felon who was armed obviously didnt care about the law. What would your choice have been? In your scenario about the homeowner, properly trained it would be a very rare instance indeed.

Any more on or off topic questions? Try to keep them on topic if you could as I now see its my fault when your questions go off topic.

 
soup
838690.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:26 am Reply with quote

Bealzybub wrote:

I'm an avid shooter and outdoorsman. There have been too many times to count where while out in the woods and forests have come across bear, cougar


Not a lot of wild Bear or Cougar in the UK

Bealzybub wrote:
properly trained


Ah so now it isn't universal gun ownership it is only for PROPERLY trained people. Is there a test at the end of this training ? Or can you sit there for X days picking your nose and then get your "I am properly trained" certificate?

Mmm questions about gun training, ok pushing the envelope a bit but I would say it is still on topic.

 
PDR
838696.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:40 am Reply with quote

Bealzybub wrote:
Stripping Americans of their constitutional rights is the road to socialism, sorry for being remiss.


Not necessarily - it could equally be a road to fascism or despotism, or even a road to democracy (say, if an overwhelming majority or americans voted to amend the constitution through an open democratic process). The event is politically neutral - it can be a unique event or a stepping stone in a journey, but that journey could be in any of a number of directions.

I'm afraid all you are demonstrating here is the depressing and rather childish tendency seen in certain sectors of society (mainly, but not universally american) of labelling anything you don't happen to agree with as "socialism".

PDR

 
suze
838697.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:41 am Reply with quote

Bealzybub wrote:
As is "I like the idea of your country, if only you all had guns".

I never made that statement.


The statement you actually made was:

bealzybub wrote:
I just wish the gun laws were a little different over where you guys are. I'd be there in a heart beat but I do love my guns.
(post 834689)

Is not that rather close to the statement which you deny making?

 
PDR
838701.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:51 am Reply with quote

And FWIW long-guns are not banned in this country - they just require licensing. The licensing process includes medical assessments to determine that the applicant is not a raving nutter (technical term), a known felon (to use the colonial term) and demonstration that the applicant has suitable storage facilities for the gun and ammunition.

Hand guns are essentially banned, but that was the result of a public campaign after some rather severe incidents. The government of the day (which was indeed a nominally "socialist" one) wanted to simply increase the requirements for the licensing process, but the right wing press and public opinion demanded the more extreme solution.

The origin or the original gun control laws over here trace back to WW1, where there were so many former military guns around that the nation was decidedly nervous about them. But then that's why our schools and universities don't even HAVE a private police force - let alone an armed one.

PDR

 
Neotenic
838710.  Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:08 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm an avid shooter and outdoorsman. There have been too many times to count where while out in the woods and forests have come across bear, cougar and yes even the nefarious felon plying their trade in one manner or another. So it is the position of you all that I should continue as I do but without my second amendment right to carry a weapon.


For sure, there is a case for being able to own a shotgun, or a hunting rifle to defend against wild animal attack - which can be owned under licence in the UK.

As a case for owning a Tec-9, an Uzi, a Glock or a Colt 45 - not so much.

And, indeed, there are as many bears and cougars in NYC or Los Angeles as there are in London.

 

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