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Norway Tragedy

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Zebra57
833787.  Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:05 pm Reply with quote

Listening to the radio I have just heard about the massacre in Norway. Apart from a bomb in Oslo, it has been announced that at least 80 young people have been killed by a maniac on an island near the capital.

 
Posital
833823.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:15 am Reply with quote

Sounds like a neo-nazi dressed up - the first-hand accounts are harrowing...

Telling people it's safe to come out, and then killing them.

They got him alive somehow.

 
Celebaelin
833832.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:01 am Reply with quote

They're bleating on about how 'sophisticated' the attacks were at the moment and raising questions about the possible involvement of others. Hmmm, sophisticated is not really the word I would have used for wanton mass carnage. I wonder when, or indeed if, they're going to start criticising the sick pig-f**king b**tard.

 
rewboss
833858.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:20 am Reply with quote

Celebaelin wrote:
Hmmm, sophisticated is not really the word I would have used for wanton mass carnage.


Wanton mass carnage can be sophisticated or unsophisticated -- the fact that it's wanton mass carnage makes it neither one nor the other.

Sophisticated mass carnage is to be feared more than the unsophisticated variety, as it tends to be more successful and harder to stop. Don't let your feelings of outrage and disgust blind you to the fact that mass killers can be very intelligent. Underestimating the intelligence of terrorists, fanatics and murderers can be fatal.

 
Spike
833881.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:43 am Reply with quote

I don't know if we have any QIers in Norway, but I would like to give my sympathy and best wishes to anyone affected by this terrible incident.

 
Neotenic
833886.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:33 am Reply with quote

I did find it interesting that, when reports of the story were just breaking and the full extent of the horrors on Utoeya was not known, the Talking Head Parade on the news channels was jumping almost instinctively towards Islamic terrorism.

As weird and uncomfortable as it sounds, I'm almost relieved that it appears to have been a white Norwegian that carried out the attack, if only so it doesn't give the dingbats a platform to crow from.

Oh, and given the most alarmingly large number of casualties, it really is quite remarkable that he has been taken alive - with so many of these types of incidents, the final fatality is the gunman himself. Could it be that he simply ran out of ammunition?

 
Celebaelin
833888.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:15 am Reply with quote

wanton adj.
1. Immoral or unchaste; lewd.
2.
a. Gratuitously cruel; merciless.
b. Marked by unprovoked, gratuitous maliciousness; capricious and unjust: wanton destruction.
3. Unrestrainedly excessive: wanton extravagance; wanton depletion of oil reserves.
4. Luxuriant; overabundant: wanton tresses.
5. Frolicsome; playful.
6. Undisciplined; spoiled.
7. Obsolete Rebellious; refractory.

carnage n.
1. Massive slaughter, as in war; a massacre.
2. Corpses, especially of those killed in battle.

The mass bit is redundant admittedly but I resist the idea of sophisticated unrestrained, excessive, gratuitously cruel and merciless massive slaughter more or less by definition. Then again I'm interpreting 'sophisticated' in the sense of refined and lacking crudeness rather than merely complex.

 
rewboss
833900.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:15 am Reply with quote

I believe whoever first said it was "sophisticated" did not mean it in the sense of "well-mannered". By almost any other definition of "sophisticated", this attack was it.

 
Celebaelin
833909.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:55 am Reply with quote

I'd have to say I don't know much about making bombs (not that we've been told anything about the bomb yet) but I'm a good rifle shot and it's not enormously complicated. For all I know the most demanding mental task this psycho conducted was setting a timer.

In any event sophisticated was a poor choice of words because of the multiple meanings and 'technically skilled' may (or may not) turn out to be a more appropriate term. I object to the word sophisticated being used to describe attempting to solve your problems by resorting to any form of violence, let alone murder. If you add to that the fact that he was caught more or less immediately we're looking at single minded, fanatical, maybe even dedicated, but not sophisticated - not in my book anyway.

 
Jenny
833915.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:27 pm Reply with quote

Neotenic wrote:

As weird and uncomfortable as it sounds, I'm almost relieved that it appears to have been a white Norwegian that carried out the attack, if only so it doesn't give the dingbats a platform to crow from.


My parents were living in India through independence and partition, and were living there at the time of Gandhi's assassination. They said they were thoroughly grateful that it was a Hindu who assassinated him, because if it had been a Muslim they felt there would have been a total bloodbath. Same principle, Neo.

 
Ainee
833918.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:30 pm Reply with quote

I found this to be a slightly more sophisticated opinion...

Also this, from the same source.

 
rewboss
833930.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:59 pm Reply with quote

Celebaelin wrote:
For all I know the most demanding mental task this psycho conducted was setting a timer.


Acquiring a bomb, or the means to make one. Planting said bomb. Acquiring a police uniform and some firearms, along with a huge amount of ammunition. All the above without attracting the attention of the authorities. Using the bomb as a diversion. Impersonating a police officer in order to lull his victims into a false sense of security. Calmly and deliberately shooting people in the head who were playing dead.

This took careful planning. Whatever else it was that drove him to it, it was a well-thought-out plan that took cunning and guile.

 
CB27
833932.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:04 pm Reply with quote

Personally, I find it difficult to comment about events in Norway because I feel I know very little about them, and it feels wrong to make speculations while families are still coming to term with the death of their relatives and friends.

However, some people make a living from commenting on such events, and 24 hour news channels wouldn't exist without that ability. Therefore, with regards to comments I've seen from people who say the media and public should not have come to the conclusion that it was an al Queda, I think it's wrong to condemn people for a very human trait of trying to make sense of something we don't yet know about.

 
Celebaelin
833941.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:20 pm Reply with quote

rew: We're not going to agree on this - best to let it go.

Behring Breivik...ish wrote:
He describes himself as a Christian and a conservative on Facebook and says that his interests include body-building, freemasonry, golf, masturbating and strangling animals.

He's got to have let himself down on the hobbies, golf's not very popular round here.

Quote:
Police chief Sveinung Sponheim said his internet postings on several forums "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views".

Quote:
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.

Friedrich Nietzsche

At least not on their own terms.

 
Bondee
833942.  Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:25 pm Reply with quote

Celebaelin wrote:
Behring Breivik...ish wrote:
He describes himself as a Christian and a conservative on Facebook and says that his interests include body-building, freemasonry, golf, masturbating and strangling animals.


Choking the chicken combined the two.

 

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