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Latvia

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CB27
884400.  Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:13 pm Reply with quote

A look at the make up of Latvia suggests the decline in population is probably more down to groups from other countries migrating out. Whether this is through ethrnic pressure, economic pressure, or the lure of life abroad, it's not a pattern that will continue forever.

A quick look at the Latvian ethnic numbers from the census shows that in 1989 there were 1,387,757. In 2000 there were 1,370,703. In 2011 there were 1,284,194. Overall, in 22 years the Latvians saw a drop of 7.46%, in the last 11 years it was 6.31%. These are not healthy numbers, but they're not huge.

In contrast, other groups have seen a major shift.

Between 1989 to 2011 ethnic Russians dropped by 38.55%, Belurusians by 43.05% and there are similar number for people from Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Germany Estonia, and even Roma people. Jews seem to be the most affected, having dropped by nearly 72%.

This means that, where ethnic Latvians made up 52% of their population in 1989, in 2011 is was 62%, which is similar to levels last seen in 1959. Prior to WWII they made up 70-75% of their population, so I think it won't be long before other ethnic groups will become more settled.

 
Nikon
884420.  Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:30 am Reply with quote

But what is "ethnic Latvians"?
Only those who have written in passport "Latvian"?
If his mather anf father was born in Latvia (in 1950-1960), if he was born in Latvia (in 1970-1980), if his childrens was born in Latvia (in 2000-2010), if they all not speek any languages (only latvian language) - all of them will not "ethnic Latvians" becaus one of grandmother/grandfather was non-Latvian in pasport.

In 1950-1990 - if one of parents was Russian - children get Russian nationality.
In 1990-2010 - if one of parents was Latvian - children get Latvian nationality.

Ethnic params - it is not information... Almost all who was born in last 20 years in Latvia will "ethnic Latvians". Therefore count of "ethnic Latvians" falls down more slowly then other.

 
CB27
884541.  Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:30 am Reply with quote

There's more to being an ethnic Latvian than to simply be born in Latvia.

Ethnic Latvians will point to both cultural and religious traditions which have more in common with North Western Europe, and this is something they share with nearby Baltic countries. There have been DNA tests which suggests that as many as half of the people who call themselves Ethnic Latvians actually have Finnic ancestry (usually found in modern day Finland and Estonia).

Add to that the fact that the Latvian language is a Baltic language, whereas Russian is a Slavic language, it's another example of the different roots for the Latvian people than their previous Russian occupiers, and some nearby neighbours.

 
Nikon
884852.  Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:24 am Reply with quote

You give statistic with ethnic Latvians.
But information: is he/she "ethnic Latvian" not based on DNA tests...
As I say - almost all who was born in Latvia after 1990y take Latvian nationality. Therefore visualy "ethnic Latvian" go down slowly.

 
CB27
884992.  Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:13 pm Reply with quote

People can put whatever they like, I was simply giving statistics of what people themselves put on the census. At the end fo the day, who are we to deny people their own sense of identity? :)

 
Nikon
885012.  Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:47 am Reply with quote

Of course, all who live in USA think that they are amerikan...
who live un USSR think that they are russians...
who live in Latvia think that they are latvians...

I jast want say - ethnic information - it is not information.

 
suze
885040.  Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:25 am Reply with quote

Although the status of the non-citizens (nepilsoņi) in Latvia is still an issue, is it not?

People from elsewhere in the former USSR (mostly Russia, inevitably) who settled in Latvia before 1992 are not Latvian citizens as of right, and neither are they citizens of any other country (since they were citizens of the USSR, which no longer exists, and do not live in Russia, the country of their ancestors).

Those people - and there are 300,000 of them, one in seven of the population - are allowed to remain in Latvia, and are given a special kind of non-citizen passport. But they are not allowed to vote or to work in the civil service, and have difficulty in traveling beyond the EU and CIS. (Because some countries, notably the USA, do not recognize the non-citizen passports.)

Upon independence, Lithuania granted its citizenship to all Russians living there who wanted to have it (whether or not they could speak Lithuanian); Latvia and Estonia did not, and so have these large groups of stateless persons. There is a route to citizenship, but it requires the ability to speak Latvian and acceptance of the position that Latvia was illegally occupied by the USSR.

 
Nikon
885642.  Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:01 pm Reply with quote

Nationality and Citizen - it is different things...
You can get Latvian nationality if one of your parents are Latvian.
You can get Latvian citizenship if you live in Latvia more then 5 years with Permanent residence permit. To get Permanent residence permit you want 5 years live in Latvia with Temporary residence permit. This means that if you live in Latvia more then 10 years, you can get Latvian citizenship.

User CB27 told about ethnic Latvian (about nationality)

 
CB27
885662.  Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:20 pm Reply with quote

User CB27 was my father, I'm just CB27 :)

I was simply quoting what came from the Latvian census, and some information I found about studies into said ethnicity.

It might not seem important to some people, but ethnicity is very important in some parts of the world, including Eastern Europe, br it through blood, culture or both.

 
Nikon
885737.  Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:59 am Reply with quote

If you and your famyly 30 years live in Germany, your father is German, your mother is French. What nationality you will take?
I think - German...

If you and your famyly 30 years live in France, your father is German, your mother is French. What nationality you will take?
I think - French...

If you live in this county - of cours you identify self with this country...

 
AlmondFacialBar
885747.  Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:36 am Reply with quote

Nikon wrote:
If you and your famyly 30 years live in Germany, your father is German, your mother is French. What nationality you will take?
I think - German...

If you and your famyly 30 years live in France, your father is German, your mother is French. What nationality you will take?
I think - French...

If you live in this county - of cours you identify self with this country...


It's not always that simple. A whole load of Turkish-Germans of the second and third generation identify as Turkish and choose Turkish citizenship for cultural reasons, others will choose the citizenship of the other parent for pragmatic reasons like residence or labour rights in that country and so on. Hence in my experience citizenship tends to have little to do with what you feel you really are.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
CB27
885785.  Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:58 pm Reply with quote

Nationality and ethnicity are not the same thing.

People can be 3rd, 4th or 17th generation born in a country and consider thelmselves culturally ethnic to that country, but there is also a racial ethnicity which can be thousands of years old or just a few centuries. It's up to the individual to see themselves and identify themselves as to what their ethnicity is, we shouldn't force it on them.

If a decent section of the Latvian population considers it's ethnicity as being other than "ethnic Latvian", why should we deny them that identity?

 
Nikon
886022.  Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:48 am Reply with quote

CB27 wrote:
A quick look at the Latvian ethnic numbers from the census shows that in 1989 there were 1,387,757.


If you say - "Nationality and ethnicity are not the same thing", then how you calculated - how many of 1,387,757 people with Latvian nationality are ethnic Latvian?

 
CB27
886050.  Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:45 pm Reply with quote

I got the figures from here:

http://demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/sng_nac_89.php?reg=10

It shows that from a total of 2,666,567 people in Latvia, 1,387,757 put themselves down as Ethnic Latvians.

 
Nikon
886855.  Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:13 am Reply with quote

You say - "Nationality and ethnicity are not the same thing"
You show - "in 1989 there were 1,387,757"
1,387,757 people with Latvian nationality!
How many of them are "Ethnic Latvians"?
1%
10%
100%
How you calculated?

 

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