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3is, 3is," seyd the wymbylle

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milkman
813568.  Thu May 05, 2011 6:50 am Reply with quote

This is a quote from an old poem I'm interested in. Can anyone tell me characters are the 3's? Are they yuchs(sic)? The character that got replaced by z in names like Menzies.
In which case the wymbylle (type of old tool, yet to find out what) is I guess just saying "Yes, yes".

: ) Marko

 
milkman
813578.  Thu May 05, 2011 7:16 am Reply with quote

Er answering my own question I think its is a 'yogh'.

 
CB27
813582.  Thu May 05, 2011 7:30 am Reply with quote

It's called a Yogh. The way it's written looks like an old style "g" with an open loop. When print became popular, and some Scottich printers didn't have the Yogh character, they often used a "z" to replace it, and it stuck with many words and names thereafter (such as Menzies).

There are some common words in English which were written with a Yogh in Middle English, such as Night, Yesterday, Yes, Gift, Eye, and various others. There's a 14th century poem called Piers Plowman which has several examples.

: ) Pollo

 
soup
813585.  Thu May 05, 2011 7:38 am Reply with quote

Could the commas be S's? As Yes was Ȝise.

A Wymbylle is probably a Gimlet (a small auger) which makes smallish holes but it is threaded at the end so it doesn't need pressure once the hole is started, unlike a bradawl.

 
suze
813683.  Thu May 05, 2011 10:56 am Reply with quote

You have been reading The Debate of the Carpenter's Tools, and I claim my non specified amount of coinage!

But yes, that is the letter yogh. When it fell out of use in England, it was generally replaced in spelling by <gh> (as in niȝt). Scotland chose to use <z> instead because of the visual similarity, which is how we come to have those names like Dalziel.

 
Moosh
813689.  Thu May 05, 2011 11:06 am Reply with quote

soup wrote:
A Wymbylle is probably a Gimlet (a small auger) which makes smallish holes but it is threaded at the end so it doesn't need pressure once the hole is started, unlike a bradawl.

I think you'll find a Wymbylle is a pointy-nosed furry creature that collects rubbish, indigenous to Wimbledon Common.

 
bobwilson
813836.  Thu May 05, 2011 8:53 pm Reply with quote

Moosh wrote:
soup wrote:
A Wymbylle is probably a Gimlet (a small auger) which makes smallish holes but it is threaded at the end so it doesn't need pressure once the hole is started, unlike a bradawl.

I think you'll find a Wymbylle is a pointy-nosed furry creature that collects rubbish, indigenous to Wimbledon Common.


Erm - used to be indigenous to Wimbledon Common. The entire population is now housed in a purpose built estate close to the Mansion House and act as advisors to the Mayor of London. They were originally removed at the behest of Dame Shirley Porter as there was evidence that they could not be relied upon to deliver votes to Conservative members.

Originally they were earmarked for destruction but their long noses, suggesting a propensity to lying, garnered a reprieve and led to the belief they could be considered an asset to the Porter administration who valued the talent for dissembling above any other.

(Note to moderators - Shirley Porter is a convicted fraudster, lives abroad and is highly unlikely to sue for libel).

 
milkman
813848.  Fri May 06, 2011 2:06 am Reply with quote

Ahem, yes I have been reading The Debate of the Carpenters Tools. Thanks for the Wymbil heads up. There may be more of that.

The commas are probably commas. This is an 1844 setting of the poem.

Elsewhere in the poem there is "3e, 3e"

What is this word? Is merely an equivalent of 'yeah' as in a contracted 'yes'? Or is it 'ye' as in 'you'?

 
exnihilo
815840.  Fri May 13, 2011 8:26 am Reply with quote

This would seem to cover it.

 

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