View previous topic | View next topic

Dunsinane

Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next

tetsabb
35846.  Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:30 pm Reply with quote

Is there any historical evidence for the trick in The Scottish Play of a camouflage tactic being used in medieval Scottish warfare?

And what is the origin of The Scottish Play being referred to as that, rather than its original title??

 
Rory Gilmore
36031.  Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:17 pm Reply with quote

It is thought that the patterns on tartan during the middle ages could be used for camouflage, but the date of the Macbeth's reign is quite early on so it seems unlikely. Macbeth infact died three years after Dunsinane, and was briefly succeeded by his stepson Lulach the Fool (who was murdered in the style of the time).

 
tetsabb
36184.  Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:44 am Reply with quote

The style of the time being Gothic? Romanesque? With four-part harmony and feeling?

 
Rory Gilmore
36192.  Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:37 am Reply with quote

Quite the opposite I believe. Eight of the first ten Scottinsh kings were murdered, King Duncan was killed after six years (age 27), about two thirds of the average up until then. Luluch lasted a few months, being a fool.

 
AndyE
36215.  Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:02 pm Reply with quote

Did the descendants of Fleance in fact go on to rule Scotland, as the Play alleges?

And why was Malcolm known as Canmore, from the Gaelic ceann mor = big head? Did ha have a large cranium, or did he just reckon himself?

 
Rory Gilmore
36217.  Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:15 pm Reply with quote

I don't think ''big head'' was used then as it is now. It might have meant leader or something, but could well have been literal. It seems that following Malcolm's son's reign the Tanaiste Rig (heir to the throne) was always the king's son.

 
Rory Gilmore
36220.  Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:30 pm Reply with quote

I say Malcolm's son because he was briefly succeded by his uncle Donald III before the following reigns of Malcolm's sons: Duncan II, Donald III/Edmund, Edgar (who plucked out Donald's eyes to stop any more nonsense), Alexander I/David I, David I. After that it was all quite simple.

 
jdallstar
36342.  Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:27 am Reply with quote

Quote:
And what is the origin of The Scottish Play being referred to as that, rather than its original title??


It's believed that if a play was doing very badly in a theatre then it was often replaced by a good Shakespearian Bloodbathin the following week - and MacBeth was the most popular successor of that kind. So the belief is that it is not mentioned in a theatre to avoid cursing your own production.

 
Jenny
36423.  Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:01 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
his stepson Lulach the Fool


Was he called that at the time, or was it hindsight?

 
samivel
36431.  Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:15 pm Reply with quote

You could have called him it to his face, if he was a fool

 
Rory Gilmore
36566.  Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:49 am Reply with quote

He was called that at the time, I think. I'm not sure why, but I think he bacame king because his mum made him do it.

 
gruoch
36944.  Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:19 pm Reply with quote

AndyE wrote:
Did the descendants of Fleance in fact go on to rule Scotland, as the Play alleges?

And why was Malcolm known as Canmore, from the Gaelic ceann mor = big head? Did ha have a large cranium, or did he just reckon himself?


This would have been a slight problem as both Banquo and Fleance are fictitious characters.

 
djgordy
36946.  Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:55 pm Reply with quote

Rory Gilmore wrote:
He was called that at the time, I think. I'm not sure why, but I think he bacame king because his mum made him do it.


Lulach - "Please Mum, don't make me become King. None of the other kids like me as it is, they call me a fool."

Lulach's Mum - "Now you listen to me young feller me lad. Take those bells off your shoes and stop playing with that pig's bladder, you don't know where it's been. You're going to be king and that's the end of it. You're being measured for your crown tomorrow so you'd better wash behind your ears."

 
Rory Gilmore
36947.  Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:57 pm Reply with quote

Yes, that sort of set up.

 
gruoch
38403.  Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:10 pm Reply with quote

jdallstar wrote:
Quote:
And what is the origin of The Scottish Play being referred to as that, rather than its original title??


It's believed that if a play was doing very badly in a theatre then it was often replaced by a good Shakespearian Bloodbathin the following week - and MacBeth was the most popular successor of that kind. So the belief is that it is not mentioned in a theatre to avoid cursing your own production.


Alternative explanations are available:

'The Globe' on the south bank burned down as a result of a special effect used in the play.

The witches' spells are based on real ones.

Certainly Graymalkin and Paddock are the names of familiars and occur outside of Shakespeare - Reginald Scot's 'Discoverie of Witchcraft' being a prime example and thought to be one of Shakespeare's sources, along with King James's 'Daemonologie'.

 

Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next

All times are GMT - 5 Hours


Display posts from previous:   

Search Search Forums

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group