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Wikitwonks is still at it

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Jenny
827236.  Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:02 pm Reply with quote

CB27, PDR (and Neo?) - what about starting a thread about trading under that name so that interested parties can follow it? I'd certainly be interested - it's something I know absolutely nothing about, and I'd love to know what you've been doing CB so that I can learn from it.

 
Neotenic
827254.  Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:15 pm Reply with quote

Good idea - I'll refrain from comment for now pending the creation of such a thread.

 
PDR
827255.  Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:15 pm Reply with quote

Because currency speculation is immoral and those who indulge in it should be burned at the prok-chap before being flayed alive and dowsed in hot chilli sauce?

Sorry - I don't know what came over me there.

PDR

 
CB27
827328.  Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:04 pm Reply with quote

I'll see about writing something this weekend maybe, sorry for the hijack - please remove the pliars from my lower region...

 
bobwilson
827378.  Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:32 pm Reply with quote

I guess I'll really have to spell it out in words of one syllable

 
samivel
827392.  Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:58 am Reply with quote

You keep promising that on various topics, but all you ever do is spout reams of weapons-grade bollocks to make a simple point, or to hide the fact that you don't have a point worth making in the first place.

 
CB27
842793.  Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:49 am Reply with quote

I smell a whiff of hypocricy here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/01/unredacted-us-embassy-cables-online

 
Neotenic
842800.  Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:00 am Reply with quote

That's precisely what I thought.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've recently read the Guardian's book mentioned in the article. It was a bit shit, tbh - and I certainly don't recall reading something that made me think I knew the password.

But the idea that Assange would actually sue for this leaked material being leaked suggests to me just how divorced the Wikileaks project has become from it's original stated goals, and how it has just become a vehicle for Assange's heavyweight ego.

 
Neotenic
918295.  Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:15 pm Reply with quote

I have been watching the latest developments in the Assange pantomime with increasing incredulity.

After the failure of what will be at least the third appeal against Swedish extradition, taking refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy was a plot twist that I can't imagine that many would have foreseen.

The choice of Ecuador is a peculiar one - sure, it seems that their president has become part of the Assange fanclub, but that certainly wasn't the case at the time of the diplomatic cable leak. Additionally, Human Rights Watch has some interesting things to say about freedom of expression in Ecuador, many of which do seem to be rather in conflict with Wikileak ideals.

Indeed, just how different would our press look if it were possible, as it is there, for journalists to face charges for even offending a member of the government or the president?

It does seem that the primary reason for his continuing, and increasingly bizarre, resistance to return to Sweden for - we should remember - formal questioning, not even being charged, is that he believes it is a fait accompli that he will be extradited in turn from there and thrown into a deep dark hole controlled by the Americans.

.....and I really don't know that this is true. If nothing else, as the cases of Gary McKinnon and the Natwest 3 should show, the States aren't exactly shy about asking us for people of interest in their criminal cases, so why couldn't he have been extradited from here instead? Why is a trip to Sweden inevitably just a stop-off on the way to Gitmo?

The thing that has added additional spice to proceedings is that in fleeing to a foreign embassy, he appears to have violated his parole - which does rather hang those well-wishers with conveniently deep pockets that put up his bail out to dry. So again, just as he did with Wikileaks colleagues, and his media partners at places like the Guardian, he seems perfectly happy to dump on people that have been helping him if it suits his purposes.

I find it hard not to see him, fundamentally, as an arrogant coward.

 
suze
918321.  Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:38 pm Reply with quote

Neotenic wrote:
The thing that has added additional spice to proceedings is that in fleeing to a foreign embassy, he appears to have violated his parole - which does rather hang those well-wishers with conveniently deep pockets that put up his bail out to dry.


That appears to be the case. Jemima Khan is one of those who has found his bail money, and is quoted in tonight's Evening Standard as saying - in more diplomatic words - that she's somewhat pissed at him for this very reason.

But it's difficult to see what happens next. While Mr Assange remains holed up in the Ecuadorean embassy, he is beyond the reach of the British authorities. (And I trust that the government will give no time at all to any voices of the further right who suggest that we invade the embassy and bring him out.)

But he cannot leave the building without being arrested. Even if he is granted asylum in Ecuador, he would have to cross London to get to an airport - and it is being made clear that he will be arrested if he tries to do that.

In theory, Ecuador could accredit him as a diplomatic courier - Britain has no right to object to this, and he would then have diplomatic immunity while in possession of a diplomatic bag. (Indeed, there's actually nothing to stop a country from declaring a person to be a diplomatic bag.)

But even then, the logistics of getting him out of the country seem impossible. The only way I can see that it could be done would be for him to travel to an airport as a diplomatic courier and then board an Ecuadorean military airplane. But if any such airplane is sent, Britain will just refuse it permission to land.

 
exnihilo
918324.  Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:41 pm Reply with quote

So he either has to stop being such an ass or live there until he dies. Does Ecuador really want to go down that road?

 
CB27
918329.  Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:04 pm Reply with quote

As I understand it, the bail is only non refundable if he fails to appear in court, so there's a chance all the sheep will get their money back (if they keep faith that their Messiah will do the right thing).

What I find interesting is how Ecuador can legally grant him political asylum because the charges against him are with regard to sexual assault and surely this is illegal in Ecuador as well?

The world continues to revolve around Pissange...

 
suze
918331.  Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:11 pm Reply with quote

exnihilo wrote:
Does Ecuador really want to go down that road?


No, I'm sure it doesn't. Neither does either Britain or Ecuador want the matter to drag on as long as the Pinochet thing did.

In practice, if Ecuador is serious and grants him asylum or even citizenship, I suspect that there will be a reluctant compromise and he'll be permitted to travel to Ecuador via a third country (probably Spain). This will not be announced until after it has happened, just in case the USA gets any daft ideas about kidnapping him.

Mr Cameron will wring his hands a bit and allow the usual suspects within his party to blame the EU. Sweden will wring its hands a bit, and the usual suspects there will blame Britain. The USA will express shock and outrage, and then hush up when it realizes that no one in Europe actually cares that it's shocked and outraged. And Jemima Khan won't get her money back.

 
suze
918333.  Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:22 pm Reply with quote

CB27 wrote:
What I find interesting is how Ecuador can legally grant him political asylum because the charges against him are with regard to sexual assault and surely this is illegal in Ecuador as well?


That does not prevent it from granting him asylum or citizenship if it so chooses.

The late Bobby Fischer was granted Icelandic citizenship while detained in Japan awaiting extradition to the USA. He was in Japan on the run, since there was a warrant for his arrest in the USA, and the actual reason for his arrest in Japan was suspected passport fraud. I'm sure that's just as illegal in Iceland as it is everywhere else.

 
Neotenic
918386.  Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:32 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Mr Cameron will wring his hands a bit and allow the usual suspects within his party to blame the EU. Sweden will wring its hands a bit, and the usual suspects there will blame Britain. The USA will express shock and outrage, and then hush up when it realizes that no one in Europe actually cares that it's shocked and outraged. And Jemima Khan won't get her money back.


However, for all the rhetoric, Ecuador still has certain trade agreements with the US - so if they were pissed off by any arrangements, its not just in Europe they could be felt.

But, nevertheless, I am not at all convinced that the US has much appetite to apprehend and detain Assange anyway. And it would appear that the Supreme Court are of a similar view in they rejected his appeal on the grounds of this risk as being 'without merit'.

I think it could well be the case that they feel they have their man in Bradley Manning - he was, after all, the person who is strongly suspected of actively removing the information from the secured environment and releasing it into the wild. Assange, for all his grand posturing, is little more than a middle-man in the process.

 

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