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I happened to hear on the radio....

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Brock
1388687.  Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:30 am Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
PDR wrote:
It was one of R4's first binaural stereo broadcasts, and the headphones were essential to get the full experience.


Wasn't it the first one full stop, on Douglas's insistence?


Don't think so. A search for "binaural" on Genome[*] shows that there were binaural stereo broadcasts on Radio 3 in February 1977 (a sound portrait called "Oil Rig"), and on Radio 4 in May 1977 (Sheridan's School for Scandal):

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?order=first&q=binaural

Hitch-Hiker's isn't billed as binaural, though. May need to look into this further.

[*]It's now officially called "BBC Programme Index", but I'm sticking with the old name.

EDIT: Found in Google Books:

"Binaural recording was also employed, and first used in The Oil Rig, a feature programme. [...] A new programme of plays, Hi-Fi Theatre, began in 1978, aiming to utilise new technological advances in dramaturgy. The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (1978) employed the output of the Radiophonic Workshop and stereophonic sound to create a futuristic sound style. Utilising binaural recording, a short experimental play The Revenge (1978) even attempted to dispose of words and create an entirely sound-based piece of radio drama."

Radio/body: Phenomenology and dramaturgies of radio by Farokh Soltani.

There may well also be something in Life on Air, David Hendy's definitive history of Radio 4. I'll try to check.

 
Brock
1389098.  Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:59 pm Reply with quote

Brock wrote:
Sue Perkins has been chosen as the new permanent host of Just a Minute:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57900638


And wasn't she good!

 
extremophilesheep
1389569.  Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:30 am Reply with quote

I don't know as I've not listened to it yet. Was she?

I know she's not to everyone's taste but Just a Minute is one of these shows*) that's recommended for us foreign lot to listen to when trying to learn or improve English and she's got a good, clear voice (I think).


*) another one would be Desert Island Discs!

 
Jenny
1389599.  Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:27 am Reply with quote

I just listened to it and enjoyed it a lot. I thought she was slightly over the top and gushing, but then Nicholas Parsons worked along those lines too.

 
Brock
1389625.  Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:13 pm Reply with quote

extremophilesheep wrote:
I don't know as I've not listened to it yet. Was she?


I listened to today's repeat as well as the original Monday broadcast, and I thought she was excellent. My only criticism was her willingness to bend the rules by awarding a point to the challenger and then letting the speaker continue going, something that Nicholas Parsons only did sparingly. (I think she did it three times in the programme.)

Quote:
I know she's not to everyone's taste but Just a Minute is one of these shows*) that's recommended for us foreign lot to listen to when trying to learn or improve English and she's got a good, clear voice (I think).

*) another one would be Desert Island Discs!


They recommend listening to Lauren Laverne to improve one's English? Not that I've got anything against the Sunderland accent, but I'd have thought it was one of the harder ones for language learners to pick up.

 
extremophilesheep
1389913.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:05 am Reply with quote

It was Kirsty Young in "my" time but it's still an easy accessible program. I've not listened to many episodes with Lauren Laverne but she doesn't seem that hard to understand.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1389919.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:36 am Reply with quote

Oh for enlightened accent tuition...

In the early eighties we were expected to speak either the discreet Estuary of the people on the listening comprehension records (the Clark family from our text book was from Epping) or BBC English, neither of which was particularly accomplishable for a bunch of kids in rural Germany, and I was in constant trouble for sounding largely American. In the mid-eighties an acquaintance who had grown up bilingually German and English in Sussex was in constant trouble for... apparently mispronouncing his As (i.e. not pronouncing them like Alan Davies), and in the early noughties a then colleague's daughter who had come here especially to pick up English naturally while she was still young enough was in trouble after going back for having a (respectable middle class, not Commitments) Dublin accent. I'm not even sure I want to know how they'd handle Mackem or Scottish.

Considering that my English teacher student contemporaries were already taught that there is no quality difference between accents in the early nineties and... Well, see, colleague's daughter, I really wonder WTF is going on with the way Germans teach English.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
Alexander Howard
1389927.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:11 am Reply with quote

I expect German educationalists are most concerned about 'proper' accents from their own culture. I am told it is difficult it is for Bavarians or Austrians to be taken seriously (which is why they don't get Arnold Schwarzenegger to dub his own parts in German).

I knew an academic whose native accent was cut-glass old-style BBC English, and who was also fluent in German. He said that when he was in conversation in Germany, he was asked "Bist du von Hannover?"

They say that our "posh accent" originated as an imitation of the Hanoverian kings so maybe it cut both ways.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1389930.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:31 am Reply with quote

The Hannover accent is known to German speakers for two things:

- Its closeness to whatever constitutes Standard German.
- Its wonky As

The latter meaning that it's not particularly standard either.

As for Bavarian and Austrian accents, the reason why that used by another well-known Austrian was so fucking weird even to German ears is that he was aware of his native accent's not very disciplined or military connotations and so he tried to give it a Prussian vibe. Let's just say that whatever caused people to vote for him in 1933, it wasn't that.

And no, German doesn't really have an accent that is regarded as better, posher, more respectable etc than the others (if you listen to Germany's heads of state and government since 1949 you'll notice that they all spoke in distinct regional accents, from Konrad Adenauer's Cologne or Theodor Heuss's Swabian to Angela Merkel's Northeastern or the fact that Frank-Walter Steinmeier sounds rather like my dad), but German speaking Europe is extremely tribal, with a lot of cultural bias between different dialectal continuums. Hence, yes, yer average German speaker would perceive the Terminator movies as comedies if Arnie dubbed them himself because the idea of an action hero with a Styrian accent is fucking hilarious even to Styrians. At the same time, however, I'd have a hard time finding a job in Bavaria because they think of people with Northern accents as ignorant country bumpkins there.

In short - we don't think of any particular accent as proper German, but what we do have to some extent outside academic circles is the same bias regarding English accents that you have yourselves. Basically, the right accent to speak in is dictated from above (even if it's Estuary) and if you divert from it, that needs to be corrected. And yes, that about the Hannovarian kings is probably true, largely because George I couldn't be arsed to learn English properly.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar


Last edited by AlmondFacialBar on Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:05 am; edited 2 times in total

 
extremophilesheep
1389931.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:35 am Reply with quote

To be honest, I'm not up to date with how English is being taught in secondary schools here, and the Radio 4 recommendations are to do with adult education, anything from jolly evening classes just to chat in English with no pressure to do a test to the Cambridge English education courses.

Whereas AlmondFacialBar and I seem to have had to endure the same dull French family, there was a difference in English. I can't remember anything at all from our secondary school English book, but in primary school we had to suffer from a series of book called WalkieTalkie (it was the eighties...) in which posh Rosemary, silly Susan and Judy and their friends Roy (black), Karim (unspecified Asian origin) and Ted (who on hindsight must have represented the whole of Ireland on account of his ginger hair but we Dutch kids didn't pick up on that). They didn't do anything exciting either.

I've never been to London but should I ever go there I will surely complain to the men I see there that they are not wearing a suit, bowler hat, umbrella and carrying a newspaper under their arm, which tells me they're not London men at all.

On a similar note, should I go to London I must probably insist on bringing my dear but unpredictable friend with me who apparently answered the question "how do you do?" with "bacon and eggs please."

 
AlmondFacialBar
1389933.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:40 am Reply with quote

extremophilesheep wrote:
Whereas AlmondFacialBar and I seem to have had to endure the same dull French family, there was a difference in English. I can't remember anything at all from our secondary school English book, but in primary school we had to suffer from a series of book called WalkieTalkie (it was the eighties...) in which posh Rosemary, silly Susan and Judy and their friends Roy (black), Karim (unspecified Asian origin) and Ted (who on hindsight must have represented the whole of Ireland on account of his ginger hair but we Dutch kids didn't pick up on that). They didn't do anything exciting either.


Colour me impressed that your English book acknowledged the existence of people of colour, cos that didn't happen for me until 9th grade. The Clarks and their friends were all as white as snow and the most exotic resident of their East Anglian neighbourhood was a German girl called Helga who I guess was there for us to identify with. Her dad was a foreign correspondent for German media and her mum was never mentioned (cos of course she wasn't).

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
Brock
1389935.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:52 am Reply with quote

extremophilesheep wrote:
To be honest, I'm not up to date with how English is being taught in secondary schools here, and the Radio 4 recommendations are to do with adult education, anything from jolly evening classes just to chat in English with no pressure to do a test to the Cambridge English education courses.


I still find it hard to believe that Just A Minute is recommended for improving one's English. This is a programme where people are encouraged to interrupt each other, frequently interpret subjects in a devious fashion, and speak in deliberate circumlocutions to avoid repeating themselves!

As a lesson in clear English, I'd recommend people to listen to someone like Viji Alles reading the Six O'Clock News.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1389938.  Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:07 am Reply with quote

Brock wrote:
extremophilesheep wrote:
To be honest, I'm not up to date with how English is being taught in secondary schools here, and the Radio 4 recommendations are to do with adult education, anything from jolly evening classes just to chat in English with no pressure to do a test to the Cambridge English education courses.


I still find it hard to believe that Just A Minute is recommended for improving one's English. This is a programme where people are encouraged to interrupt each other, frequently interpret subjects in a devious fashion, and speak in deliberate circumlocutions to avoid repeating themselves!


All of which means that ESL learners need to think on their feet when listening to it and get a better idea of the different ways English is actually used. They won't get that from a BBC continuity announcer. Indeed, as an ESL learner myself, I'd say "clear" English is the least of a favour anyone could have done me because it's also the least likely variety you'll encounter in conversation. I'm still not quite over the accent of the lady I asked for directions the first time I was in London at the age of 14. To say it was nothing like anything I had ever heard in school is putting it mildly.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
extremophilesheep
1390140.  Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:07 am Reply with quote

And yet clear English is often found on Just a Minute as people will speak more slowly to win time. Something several other BBC shows could profit from too as the contents are superinteresting but often go right over my head as I can't keep up and people try to cram way too many words in one second like there's a new show called "Just a Second" (like with one of my favourite shows, Nathalie Haynes stands up for the classics).

 
crissdee
1390179.  Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:22 pm Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
The Clarks and their friends were all as white as snow and the most exotic resident of their East Anglian neighbourhood was a German girl called Helga.


In fairness, that was a pretty accurate representation of Epping in those days!

 

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