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Idioms

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suze
748839.  Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:08 am Reply with quote

That is sort of true. If a racist incident takes place in a local league match, then it is for the local footballing authority - i.e. the Rossijskij Futbol'nyj Sojuz, in this instance - to address it (or choose not to). UEFA and FIFA cannot intervene directly.

But it would be absolutely in order for UEFA to tell the RFS that it will suspend Russia's membership privileges until such time as the RFS is seen to have done something about the issue. After all, it suspended some of England's membership privileges (i.e. excluded English clubs from the European Cup) until such time as England did something about football-related violence.

If UEFA is reluctant to get involved in the sensitive subject of crowds maltreating black players, it could certainly tell Russia that it is suspended until such time as results cease to be pre-determined.

And FIFA has suspended several national teams (thus excluding them from the World Cup) until they have come into compliance with a rule banning governmental interference in footballing matters.

If Russia is determined to allow itself to be run by gangsters, that is its outlook. But it should't expect the rest of the world to accommodate that determination.

 
Voblin
748858.  Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:09 am Reply with quote

suze - personally I would welcome any move by FIFA (or anyone else for that matter) aimed at curbing racism. A pathetic attempt by a Russian bureaucrat to pass a racist jibe as a harmless idiom is easy enough to expose for what it is.

However - we can only speculate as to why such a move by FIFA is not forthcoming...

 
mckeonj
748860.  Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:17 am Reply with quote

...of idioms:
Much was made at the time of Krushchev shouting at the USA, "We will bury you!". This was conveniently misunderstood to mean a threat: "We will kill you!"; what he actually meant was,"We (USSR) will outlive you (USA), and come to your funeral."

 
djgordy
749023.  Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:04 am Reply with quote

"In Europe and America, there's a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets
Mr. Krushchev said we will bury you
I don't subscribe to this point of view
It would be such an ignorant thing to do
If the Russians love their children too,"

 
HarryAlffa
749153.  Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:08 am Reply with quote

My brother, struggling to convey meaning, said the other day, "I've only go three bars of petrol left."
"You drive a mobile phone?"

 
IronMonkey
755172.  Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:11 am Reply with quote

I don't know if it falls under the catergory idioms but from an early age we are taught that dog go woof, cats go miaow, cow go moo. So what about French of Japanese.

Click for information

 
Untutored Eye
755175.  Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:21 am Reply with quote

djgordy wrote:
An idiom is a word or phrase which is to be understood in a figurative, rather than a literal way.

In Russia. so it is claimed, "to get a banana" means "to fail a test"; it should not be understood as meaning "we don't want any black players in our football league".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9027968.stm


Yeah, it was racist. They don't banana the white players.

But Locomotiv's loss is the Baggie's gain, thank you.

 
RLDavies
755323.  Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:50 pm Reply with quote

HarryAlffa wrote:
My brother, struggling to convey meaning, said the other day, "I've only go three bars of petrol left."
"You drive a mobile phone?"

Our car shows petrol as a stack of illuminated bars, and when you're down to three you'd better get to the station. I suppose most modern cars have the same sort of display.

 
Voblin
764507.  Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:54 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
If Russia is determined to allow itself to be run by gangsters, that is its outlook. But it should't expect the rest of the world to accommodate that determination.

FIFA did accommodate it today big time - by giving Russia the World Cup 2018. And guess who was running the Russian bid - the very same "get a banana" Mr. Sorokin. This is not QI any more - this is QA (quite appalling)...

 
suze
764513.  Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:24 pm Reply with quote

I too was less than thrilled at FIFA awarding the World Cup 2018 to Russia. I didn't particularly want England to get it, but I'd have been fairly happy with Spain and Portugal.

But my non-thrilledness with Russia and 2018 pales into nothingness as compared to my non-thrilledness with the idea of Qatar 2022. Australia would have been the best option, but the issue over access to stadiums which are also used for rugby league or Aussie rules won't have helped.

 
sjb
764515.  Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:30 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
But my non-thrilledness with Russia and 2018 pales into nothingness as compared to my non-thrilledness with the idea of Qatar 2022.


Me too.

 
samivel
764540.  Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:59 pm Reply with quote

Now, now, FIFA clearly went for those countries with the best facilities and strongest traditions of football. It's not about money, you know.

 
bobwilson
764771.  Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:51 pm Reply with quote

It's odd, isn't it, how the UK media suddenly noticed that FIFA weren't the most democratic and transparent institution just after the UK didn't get the World Cup gig. Purely coincidental of course.

A week ago the same media were falling over themselves to point out how unpatriotic it was of Panorama to mention that FIFA were (erm) undemocratic and opaque.

If FIFA announce that some future World Cup will take place in the UK will we suddenly learn that FIFA is the second coming?

Personally, declaring an interest, I think it's more important that we have Panorama and a free press than the disruption of a few thousand paid hooligans transported around the country where they can variously intimidate and disrupt the local population.

It's my experience that the kind of people who follow football are the same kind of people who used to say "go back to Russia". It'll be nice to see these people "go to Russia" and thus be able to report first hand on the kind of experience I can receive first hand.

 
suze
764861.  Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:43 am Reply with quote

As bob would tell us is in fact always the case, I tend towards agreement with most of what he says here.

In an ideal world, global politics would have no impact on which countries get to stage the World Cup - but we have to live in the real world, and that's not how it is. One could go on to say that in an ideal world, there would be no suggestion of corrupt practices in the process - but in fact, it's only really in the countries that speak Germanic languages that received opinion frowns on bribery and corruption.

One point on which I must disagree with bob, though:

bobwilson wrote:
It's my experience that the kind of people who follow football are the same kind of people who used to say "go back to Russia".


If what bob means here is that, in his experience, football fans tend towards the political right, well my experience is not the same as his. In fact if anything, I reckon they tend towards the political left. (I'm thinking here solely of the differences between, loosely speaking, a "conservative" on the one hand and a "socialist" on the other.)

What bob did not say, but others who are not really football fans have done, is that those who follow football are the same kind of people who used to say "go back to Africa". At one time there was some truth in that, and unfortunately there continues to be in some countries (sadly, Poland is one of those countries).

Not in Britain though - that kind of behaviour is by now very rare at football grounds in Britain, and when it does occasionally happen it is quite rightly condemned.

Next time bob happens to be in Hamburg, he should take himself to a match involving FC St Pauli. That club's fanbase is heavily biased towards women, gay men, punks, anarchists, and assorted other people who have not traditionally followed football, and its stadium stages "home" matches played by the Tibet national team. Oh, and the club reckons to have more supporters than any other club in Germany bar Bayern München - even though it's never been German champion.

 
Voblin
765126.  Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:41 pm Reply with quote

Not that I want to argue with bobwilson - admittedly I went to live football games in the UK only twice (bit of a couch potato I'm afraid); but I have to say - both times it was a great experience.

Now, the main reason why I replied to the original post about the "banana" idiom was to point out a lie of a conniving Russian bureaucrat that wormed its way into the mind of a fellow QI-er. To me, the likes of Mr Sorokin are a very familiar type of an impertinent modern Russian politician. It saddens me to see Mr. Putin & Co swindle the international community. And the more they do it - the more assured they become of their impunity.

You might have heard of Mikhail Khodorkovsky - one of the most successful Russian "oligarchs" who had the guts to openly oppose Mr. Putin, and who is now in jail, with very slim chances of ever getting out. He made a very valid point in his recent article for the Washington Post:
Quote:
Russia, no longer ensconced behind an iron curtain, has integrated into the community of nations and the world economy. It is alarming, however, that one of its exports remains corruption, fueled by a host of eager importers, most notably developed countries in the West. Unfortunately, throughout my country corruption has been transformed into a systemic factor that governs many political and economic decisions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/25/AR2010052503973.html

On the one hand, you have powerful Russian corruption export, with tons of money to burn, and on the other - FIFA, which, as shown yet again by BBC Panorama, seems an ideal kind of place to thoroughly enjoy being corrupted. A match made in heaven...

It is likely that the World Cup is not that significant compared to other Russian "projects"; yet getting it is another success story, another encouraging nod of approval and acceptance.

Apologies for a long off-topic post; I will shut up now.

 

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