View previous topic | View next topic

Indians (as in cowboys and...)

Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next

djgordy
727305.  Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:02 am Reply with quote

The phrase "the only good indian is a dead indian" is attributed to general Phil Sheridan. In January 1869 he was at Fort Cobb (then in the "Indain Territories" but now in Oklahoma). A Cheyenne chief called Toch-a-way" is supposed to have said to Sheridan "me Toch-a-way, me good indian" to which the general replied "the only good indian I ever saw was dead".

In Jan 1886, less than 15 years before he became President, Theodore Roosevelt said "I suppose I should be ashamed to say that I take the western view of the Indian. I don't go so far as to say that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are and I shouldn't like to enquire too closely into the case of the tenth".

According to Fathers for Justice, the only good Indian is a dad Indian.

OK, I made the last one up!


Last edited by djgordy on Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total

 
Spud McLaren
727312.  Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:38 am Reply with quote

Robert McGee might agree with Sheridan.

 
bobwilson
727490.  Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:53 pm Reply with quote

Dee Brown's "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee" should be essential reading for anyone studying the history of the USA.

 
tetsabb
727610.  Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:10 am Reply with quote

A friend of mine years ago saw a van with the company name 'Patel and Patel', a firm of builders, IIRC
The tag line was 'You've tried the cowboys, now try the Indians'

 
Bondee
727651.  Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:32 pm Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:
A friend of mine years ago saw a van with the company name 'Patel and Patel', a firm of builders, IIRC
The tag line was 'You've tried the cowboys, now try the Indians'


I did wonder if, when Prince Phillip made his "it looks as though it was put in by an Indian" gaffe, he actually meant a cowboy.

 
tetsabb
727794.  Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:17 am Reply with quote

Almost anything is possible when he opens his mouth

 
Woodsman
731824.  Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:37 pm Reply with quote

A bit of confusion here as my wife - the Englishwoman - mistakes me when I refer to Indians, as she is thinking of Indians but not the Indians I'm thinking of. I'll ask her to refer to East Indians, as opposed to American Indians. Reference to Native Americans isn't quite right as I am a native American but not an Indian.

This should be cleared up somehow.

 
PDR
731827.  Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:54 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
Dee Brown's "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee" should be essential reading for anyone studying the history of the USA.


Or the adaption for the big screen in the film called "Avatar".

PDR

 
tetsabb
732098.  Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:19 pm Reply with quote

Woodsman wrote:
A bit of confusion here as my wife - the Englishwoman - mistakes me when I refer to Indians, as she is thinking of Indians but not the Indians I'm thinking of. I'll ask her to refer to East Indians, as opposed to American Indians. Reference to Native Americans isn't quite right as I am a native American but not an Indian.

This should be cleared up somehow.


Purely an issue of pronunciation, possibly?
Injuns could be how to refer to the tribes of people who lived in North America prior to the arrival of the white man (and woman)
In-dee-ann for people from Southern Asia.
The East Indies to me always refers to what is now Indonesia and them parts.
And Woodsman is what is known as a 'colonial' in some quarters.
Sor'ed, innit?
:-)

 
plinkplonk
732101.  Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:29 pm Reply with quote

Woodsman wrote:
A bit of confusion here as my wife - the Englishwoman - mistakes me when I refer to Indians, as she is thinking of Indians but not the Indians I'm thinking of. I'll ask her to refer to East Indians, as opposed to American Indians. Reference to Native Americans isn't quite right as I am a native American but not an Indian.

This should be cleared up somehow.


Aboriginal is clearer than Native though anyway. A native technically just means born, aboriginal means there from the beginning (not quite true either really).

Let's just say the whole thing is politically incorrect and leave it at that...

 
Woodsman
732186.  Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:08 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Aboriginal is clearer than Native though anyway. A native technically just means born, aboriginal means there from the beginning (not quite true either really).


Aboriginal is not used in North America hardly at all for some reason. In Canada, the reference is to First Nation's peoples, which includes Indian and Inuit. In the northeastern US, Indians prefer to be called Indians for the most part - In jun being pejorative. In other parts of the US, Native American is required, Indian being pejorative. There are relatively few In dee anns from the subcontinent, so the confusion usually arises when speaking with a Brit - as noted above.

 
bobwilson
732199.  Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:26 pm Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
bobwilson wrote:
Dee Brown's "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee" should be essential reading for anyone studying the history of the USA.


Or the adaption for the big screen in the film called "Avatar".

PDR


Hardly the same thing PDR.

 
PDR
732223.  Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:42 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
PDR wrote:
bobwilson wrote:
Dee Brown's "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee" should be essential reading for anyone studying the history of the USA.


Or the adaption for the big screen in the film called "Avatar".

PDR


Hardly the same thing PDR.


The plots are closer than for the pearl harbour movie, or for U571. By hollywood standards Avatar would count as plagiarism...

PDR

 
suze
732269.  Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:29 am Reply with quote

Woodsman wrote:
Aboriginal is not used in North America hardly at all for some reason. In Canada, the reference is to First Nation's peoples, which includes Indian and Inuit.


Strictly, the term "First Nations" is supposed to refer only to North American Indians. The Inuit do not consider it to include them, and in any case they were not the first people to inhabit their parts of the continent (the Dorset people were there before them). Neither do the Métis identify as First Nations - and again, they are accurate in not doing, since their ancestry is partly European. "Native Canadians" is rarely used.

The Canadian Constitution does use the term "Aboriginal Peoples of Canada", and defines it as including the Indian, Inuit, and Métis peoples of Canada. That hasn't really caught on in popular usage, but seems to be slowly gaining popularity. As for "Indian", Canadian law continues to use it; the people to whom it applies vary as to whether or not they care for it.

It's worth noting that Canada by now has more people whose roots are in South Asia than it has full blooded Aboriginal Peoples - there are about one million, most in and around Toronto and Vancouver. Most of these prefer "Indian" to "East Indian" or "South Asian"; "Desi Canadian" is currently a fairly popular term among those communities, but little used by the white population.

 
Woodsman
732360.  Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:06 pm Reply with quote

Thank you on the correction re First Nations and the Inuit.

Aboriginal Peoples of Canada is a mouthful. But I'm still wondering if the Indians who prefer to call themselves Indian and the people who are 'former' Indians will come to an agreement.

"Desi & Lucy Canadian" ?

 

Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next

All times are GMT - 5 Hours


Display posts from previous:   

Search Search Forums

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group