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Islands - Isles - Islets

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sjb
794397.  Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:44 pm Reply with quote

Funny you mention that. Here's my friend pointing out the less-than-subtle sign at the airport.

 
samivel
794546.  Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:04 am Reply with quote

I'm glad that your friend was able to point out that sign, because I reckon I'd've missed it otherwise.

:P

 
sjb
794555.  Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:34 am Reply with quote

Did I mention my friend is only an inch tall? True story.

 
'yorz
794561.  Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:42 am Reply with quote

Is that a dog kennel on the right? Are female Copenhagen Airport officials real bitches?

 
sjb
794577.  Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:25 am Reply with quote

lol

:)

 
otyikondo
794861.  Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:19 pm Reply with quote

Re: Eyot and Ait a few pages back, I suspect there is also an element of this is the common use of the -ea and -ey suffix in The Fens for "islands" (read: slightly higher bits of land) used for settlement.

Examples are legion, but include Manea and Shippea Hill, Stuntney, Thorney...

Things become a little more complicated with the Scandinavian (Old Norse) aspect being thrown in, since most of these "-eas" and "-eys" were named after someone: Swavesey, for instance was presumably occupied by some local chieftain called Swave - it was his island.

Having an "S" in there makes for an interesting opportunity for a mix-up: for example, there is a village just outside Cambridge called Horningsea that is pronounced "horning-sea", and although I grew up in this neck of the woods, it was not until I moved to Finland and picked up Swedish as well as Finnish that it dawned on me that this village - and the other little Fen hamlets that have a similar structure to the name with -ea or -ey at the end - have nothing whatsoever to do with "sea" and a lot more to do with the absence of it, which is what attracted Horning and his mates in the first place.

The -ey form is of course repeated in several Channel Islands - though why they should have a Norse connection I don't know.

And I suppose Chertsey is another candidate... just as is the volcanic island of Surtsey that was created off the south coast of Iceland in 1963 and was around 3 square kilometres in area in its heyday, though it's got a lot smaller now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surtsey

 
tchrist
794866.  Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:12 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The bridge from Denmark to Sweden crosses a body of water which Danes call the Řresund and Swedes the Öresund. To avoid upsetting either nation, a composite letter (i.e. Ř with an omljud) is used in some signage for the bridge - although it's a right pain in the ass for them because none of the standard fonts contain that composite letter).

In theory, suze, and according to the way things should work, that should not be a real problem. In practice, though, it often is.

That’s because there’s no single Unicode code point that represents a capital O with a stroke through it and a pair of dots on top. You have to compose it out of separate code points using combining characters to add the diacritics that aren't there already.

It turns out that many, perhaps most, programs that deal with combining characters cheat. When they see an incoming sequence that exactly matches a precombined character, they use that. But when there isn’t such, they screw up. An exception to this is the simple Mac Terminal application utility, which actually creates new characters that aren't in the font.

The slashed capital O is U+00D8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE. There’s only one precomposed code point with a diacritic added to a slashed O: U+01FE LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE AND ACUTE. The code point for a combining acute is U+U301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT, while the one for a combining omljud is U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS.

Open a Mac Terminal window if you have one, or any Unix shell otherwise; make sure your Terminal or Console window is in the UTF-8 encoding. Then type this (but not the % symbol; that’s just meant to represent the shell prompt):
Code:
% perl -CS -le 'print "\x{D8}\x{301}"'
Ǿ

% perl -CS -le 'print "\x{1FE}"'
Ǿ

% perl -CS -le 'print "\x{D8}\x{308}"'
Ř̈

It doesn’t look right as I’m typing it in here, because web browsers are terribly at combining characters. I don’t know many that actually create new characters the way Terminal does.

The first two will look identical if the application handles combining characters at all. If they look the same in your web browser, then it may be grabbing a precomposed version. The first one with two code points is the canonically decomposed version of the second one, the one with a single code point. They should be treated identically and count as — and look like — a single character.

But the third one should also be only one character wide, even though there is no canonically composed version that reduces to a single code point. The umlaut should still be placed right above the Ř, just as the acute accent was.

Opera 11 seems to do the right thing here although it is difficult to read. It is much easier to read in Terminal, whose fonts are more generous that whatever is getting used here. Opera tries, which is better than some, but I don’t find it easy reading. Use Terminal to see how it ought to look.

To handle Unicode correctly, proper typesetting applications have to be able to compose new characters that do not already exist. Alas, many do not. I imagine that they may have had to go to some trouble to find a sign-making program that did the right thing here.

--tom

 
mckeonj
794926.  Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:47 am Reply with quote

otyikondo wrote:
Re: Eyot and Ait a few pages back, I suspect there is also an element of this is the common use of the -ea and -ey suffix in The Fens for "islands" (read: slightly higher bits of land) used for settlement.

Examples are legion, but include Manea and Shippea Hill, Stuntney, Thorney...

Things become a little more complicated with the Scandinavian (Old Norse) aspect being thrown in, since most of these "-eas" and "-eys" were named after someone: Swavesey, for instance was presumably occupied by some local chieftain called Swave - it was his island.

Having an "S" in there makes for an interesting opportunity for a mix-up: for example, there is a village just outside Cambridge called Horningsea that is pronounced "horning-sea", and although I grew up in this neck of the woods, it was not until I moved to Finland and picked up Swedish as well as Finnish that it dawned on me that this village - and the other little Fen hamlets that have a similar structure to the name with -ea or -ey at the end - have nothing whatsoever to do with "sea" and a lot more to do with the absence of it, which is what attracted Horning and his mates in the first place.

The -ey form is of course repeated in several Channel Islands - though why they should have a Norse connection I don't know.

And I suppose Chertsey is another candidate... just as is the volcanic island of Surtsey that was created off the south coast of Iceland in 1963 and was around 3 square kilometres in area in its heyday, though it's got a lot smaller now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surtsey

In Irish Gaelic there is a word inis (island), which appears in place names such as Inis Mór (big island).
This is often anglicised to Inch or Ennis in place names, and applied to places which at first sight do not appear to be islands, but are surrounded by rivers, and accessed by bridges.
An interesting case is that of Ayot St Lawrence in England and Inch St Lawrence in Ireland, which have the same situation and a Crusader connection.

 
suze
795090.  Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:07 pm Reply with quote

tchrist wrote:
To handle Unicode correctly, proper typesetting applications have to be able to compose new characters that do not already exist. Alas, many do not. I imagine that they may have had to go to some trouble to find a sign-making program that did the right thing here.


Although two of the three most popular word processing programs do the job perfectly well (WordPerfect doesn't, what with remaining in the 18th century and not supporting Unicode).

So draw the signage in Word, and then photocopy it really big onto a lump of metal. Works every time ...


But hey, how many people actually know how to use combining diacritics? Yea, you do and I do, but for instance my husband didn't until I told him - and he's by no means a computer illiterate.

(I did try to do it on here - but as you note, combining diacritics don't usually work very well in web browsers and it looked rubbish.)

 
Spud McLaren
795152.  Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:45 pm Reply with quote

otyikondo wrote:
The -ey form is of course repeated in several Channel Islands - though why they should have a Norse connection I don't know.
Norman French? The Normans were gallicised Norsemen.

There's the story of the German officer who, during the very early stages of the German occupation of the Channel Islands, remarked to one of the inhabitants, "We have come to liberate you from the English!" The islander replied, "Well, you can't*. At the last count, we invaded them."


*not a spelling error.

 
otyikondo
795179.  Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:04 pm Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:
otyikondo wrote:
The -ey form is of course repeated in several Channel Islands - though why they should have a Norse connection I don't know.
Norman French? The Normans were gallicised Norsemen.

There's the story of the German officer who, during the very early stages of the German occupation of the Channel Islands, remarked to one of the inhabitants, "We have come to liberate you from the English!" The islander replied, "Well, you can't*. At the last count, we invaded them."


*not a spelling error.


Works for me. Of course - the NORmans.

 
Bondee
795654.  Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:25 am Reply with quote

otyikondo wrote:
And I suppose Chertsey is another candidate...


Yep...

Quote:
Formal documented history in this area starts with the building of the Saxon Abbey in Abbey Gardens. The traditional date for the start of this building is 666 AD but actually more likely to have been 671. This Abbey was built on the highest possible ground so as to keep the monks feet dry all year round, a real consideration in the days before the invention of vulcanised rubber for footwear and when the local area round about regularly flooded in the winter. The closeted northern cleric the Venerable Bede (731) refers to an Abbey at ‘Ceorteseig’, the Isle of Cerotus.


http://www.chertseylocal.co.uk/History/P3Chertsey%20HistoryRomansandAngloSaxons.php

 
samivel
795752.  Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:42 pm Reply with quote

Well, nothing to do with the topic, but calling Bede a 'closeted northern cleric' carries a high risk of being misconstrued.

 
dr bartolo
797267.  Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:35 am Reply with quote

It is surprising hat no- one has yet mentioned Pulau semakau, a island off Singapore that has the curious distiction of being the only island in the world fabricated almost entirely from rubbish....
(it is a landfill, , parts of it grassed over)

 
Hans Mof
804210.  Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:36 am Reply with quote

Amsterdam is an island...

belongs to France
has 55 to 100 inhabitants
and reaches as high as 865 m
it is located at 37°52'S 77°33'E

alternatively

belongs to Norway
the only signs of civilisation are seven 17th century blubber ovens
it is located at 79°40'N, 10°30'E

alternatively

yet another island of the coast of Java

 

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