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Indonesia (last of the "I" countries)

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Spud McLaren
721536.  Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:00 pm Reply with quote

The Sumatran Tiger has webbed feet.

The Sumatran Water Shrew walks on water.

 
Spud McLaren
721537.  Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:17 pm Reply with quote

Several websites carry this: "Did you know that it is forbidden not to have a religion in Indonesia? (Doesn't matter which one as long as you have one)"

In fact this is total bollocks, and has probably arisen as a corruption of the facts below:

"A law passed in 2006 mandated the inclusion of religion on the identity cards, despite objections that forcing people to display their faith was a violation of basic human rights.

The archipelago nation of 17,000 islands also has a number of minority religious beliefs that critics say the law simply fails to capture.

This is because Indonesia officially recognises only six major faiths -- Islam, Catholicism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism.

For followers of other faiths, such as animism or local traditional beliefs, nothing is entered on the card because they practice a religion the government does not officially recognise
." (bold text mine).

From http://wwrn.org/articles/24752/?&place=indonesia-brunei&section=sectarian-violence


Last edited by Spud McLaren on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

 
suze
721802.  Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:18 am Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:
This is because Indonesia officially recognises only six major faiths -- Islam, Catholicism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism.


It seems that "Christianity" here means Protestant Christianity. I can't say that I'm wild about a website called "Worldwide Religious News" apparently considering RCs to be non-Christian; does rather make one question its authoritativeness.

Bali (Hindu), Flores (Roman Catholic), and Papua (Lutheran) are the main non-Muslim regions within Indonesia.

 
tetsabb
721864.  Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:50 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
animism

Oh dear, I totally misread that for a moment. I thought someone had set up a belief system based on bottoms.

>>> Naughty step

 
Spud McLaren
721905.  Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:00 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Spud McLaren wrote:
This is because Indonesia officially recognises only six major faiths -- Islam, Catholicism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism.


It seems that "Christianity" here means Protestant Christianity. I can't say that I'm wild about a website called "Worldwide Religious News" apparently considering RCs to be non-Christian; does rather make one question its authoritativeness.
That's true, although the main thrust appears to be accurate. I looked at a few other websites, including one set up by the Indonesian government, and it appears that they make a distinction between Protestantism and Catholicism, counting them as distinct religions. There seems to be some confusion as to whether Confucianism is one of the recognised six, and if not, what the sixth one is; but no matter - the point is, you can be an agnostic in Indonesia if you want.

 
arnold08
723773.  Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:00 am Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:
suze wrote:
Spud McLaren wrote:
This is because Indonesia officially recognises only six major faiths -- Islam, Catholicism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism.


It seems that "Christianity" here means Protestant Christianity. I can't say that I'm wild about a website called "Worldwide Religious News" apparently considering RCs to be non-Christian; does rather make one question its authoritativeness.
That's true, although the main thrust appears to be accurate. I looked at a few other websites, including one set up by the Indonesian government, and it appears that they make a distinction between Protestantism and Catholicism, counting them as distinct religions. There seems to be some confusion as to whether Confucianism is one of the recognised six, and if not, what the sixth one is; but no matter - the point is, you can be an agnostic in Indonesia if you want.


I'm Indonesian (maybe the only one around here!) and I can confirm that this is true. Confucianism is a fairly recent addition, during the reign of President Abdurrahman Wahid, as a gesture of kindness towards the Chinese ethnics. This also came with the Chinese New Year being declared as a public holiday.

Note1: You can choose not to belong to any of the six "formal" religions, but you must confess of the One God through Aliran Kepercayaan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliran_kepercayaan). Atheism is illegal and has always been linked to Communism, which is banned in Indonesia following the Communist Party "rebellion" (or so the history books say) in 1965.

Note2: Apologies for the Wikipedia source, can't find anything of higher authority on this (yet!).

 
Spud McLaren
723873.  Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:06 am Reply with quote

This is one of those cases where I'm pleased to be proven wrong!. I had originally looked at this as I thought it may be the basis for a question on a QI episode, but put up post 721537 as I thought I had info that seemed to disprove it. Thanks, arnold!

How do agnostics and Buddhists stand, though? (as Buddhism doesn't have a god as such - well, my Buddhism doesn't, anyway).

 
arnold08
724058.  Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:55 pm Reply with quote

This is where it gets interesting ;)

The endorsement of the formal religions is based on the 1945 Constitution, as well as the Garuda Pancasila (the national coat of arms), which basically states the ideology of the One God whose existence in undisputable.

So based on this, atheism, agnosticism, and other beliefs that deviate from monotheism are illegal. Buddhism, however, is recognised on the basis that the Buddha is viewed as an embodiment of the one deity, and that Buddhists follow the Buddha's way and teaching. This is perhaps also the basis of the recognition of Confucianism.

Now what about the Hindu polytheism? The "flavour" of Hinduism practiced in Indonesia actually edges towards monotheism, in that there is the one supreme being. Other groups explain that Brahma, Krishna, and Vishnu are the different personification of the same God, akin to the Christian Trinity.

PS: Pardon the pan-English =\

 
Spud McLaren
724059.  Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:03 pm Reply with quote

Thanks, that is interesting. How do visitors to the country stand with this?


Pan-English?

 
arnold08
724077.  Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:45 pm Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:
Thanks, that is interesting. How do visitors to the country stand with this?


Pan-English?


Pan-English <--- everyman's English, referring to Stephen's discussion on how English has evolved through a mix of influence from various other languages :)

Anyways, Indonesians are generally tolerant towards visitors so they're not as strict as say Arabic countries. But they'll appreciate if you can respect their religious practices, e.g. not eating in public during Ramadhan, not partying out during the Hindu New Year (in Bali).

 
Spud McLaren
724094.  Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:27 am Reply with quote

If you hadn't said, I wouldn't have known that you weren't English - your English is better than mine!

 
'yorz
724320.  Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:57 pm Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:
I looked at a few other websites, including one set up by the Indonesian government, and it appears that they make a distinction between Protestantism and Catholicism, counting them as distinct religions.


Well, they are, aren't they? Different religions, I mean. It's not just the Indonesian Government that makes that distinction.

 
Spud McLaren
724329.  Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:06 pm Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
Spud McLaren wrote:
I looked at a few other websites, including one set up by the Indonesian government, and it appears that they make a distinction between Protestantism and Catholicism, counting them as distinct religions.


Well, they are, aren't they? Different religions, I mean. It's not just the Indonesian Government that makes that distinction.
Wel, it's usual, I thought, to bracket them together under "Christianity".

 
'yorz
724333.  Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:32 pm Reply with quote

Well, yea, they're both Christian religions, but very different Christian religions. I see nothing strange about making a distinction between the two. How can one not?

Thinking about this, I must admit that my knowledge about the religious situation there is based on the status quo in 1994.
The religious climate may well have changed since then. However, that doesn't change the above.

 
Spud McLaren
724364.  Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:01 pm Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
Well, yea, they're both Christian religions, but very different Christian religions. I see nothing strange about making a distinction between the two. How can one not?
Oh, I'd certainly make a distinction, but between two arms of the same religion, rather than two different religions. I'd have thought you could class them as two different religions if they had different scriptures; but they share the same book without, as far as I know, any significant alterations, extensions, additions or alternatives.

Yes, I know - The Old Testament belongs rightly to the Jewish religion. But the New Testament doesn't, so Christianity is a different religion from Judaism.

As far is I'm concerned (or care), Catholicism and Protestantism are different parts of the same religion. When speaking about Buddhism, one doesn't usually list Zen, Pure Land, Ch'an, etc, as different religions (unless writing a treatise specifically on the different forms of Buddhism), despite the fact that they all place different emphases on the order of reverence of the sutras.

 

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