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Spud McLaren
765163.  Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:45 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
I prefer the system of English Law. Nothing is "written" - everything is open to change and interpretation. It's not perfect by a long chalk but it's far better than relying on trying to interpret what some dead bloke(s) said as they do in the US and other religious based communities.
Crikey, bob - are you telling me that Gould, Nares and DeGray [in judgement in the case Scott v Shepherd (1773)] are still alive?

 
tp
770488.  Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:38 am Reply with quote

Did you know that in Arabic Islam means lirterally to surrender, as in to surrender one's self to God (Allah.)

Also (and I think this is true but would need more checking), Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and that he didn't die on the cross but was rescued. There's a conspiracy theory for you...

Another fact of interest relating to Islam is the first Shiek of Great Britain. He was a white man, can't remember his name, but he was an ex lawyer who converted to Islam and built the first Mosque in Britain, in Liverpool. This is in the 1890s. He was something of a celebratey during his time but was discredited due to malpractice and fled the country.

 
CB27
770531.  Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:31 am Reply with quote

You have to remember that when one translates a word from one language to another, the meanings sometimes differ. To surrender in English is not quite the same as how it sounds in Arabic, or other semitic languages.

Islam comes from the same root as Salaam, which means "Peace", the more famous Hebrew equivalent is Shalom. The concept of "surrender" in that sense is more akin to when people talk about "letting go and opening your mind".

The irony of course, is that the concept of "surrender" has been corrupted over time, so that some of the more radical fanatics who claim to represent traditional Islam are in fact corrupting it's original use.

 
bobwilson
770976.  Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:54 pm Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:
bobwilson wrote:
I prefer the system of English Law. Nothing is "written" - everything is open to change and interpretation. It's not perfect by a long chalk but it's far better than relying on trying to interpret what some dead bloke(s) said as they do in the US and other religious based communities.
Crikey, bob - are you telling me that Gould, Nares and DeGray [in judgement in the case Scott v Shepherd (1773)] are still alive?


It's more that they're hanging on to life by a slender thread whilst defending themselves against charges of conspiracy to commit criminal damage as they attempt to cut the ropes around their necks.

 
CB27
771058.  Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:26 am Reply with quote

They're the welcoming committee for the Young Conservatives.

 
Ian Dunn
781117.  Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:07 pm Reply with quote

I think I've come across a piece of General Ignorance.

Quote:
Q: Where do Muslims worship?
K: A mosque
A: A masjid


The correct Islamic word for what we call a mosque is "masjid". "Mosque" is a French orientalist term from the 17th century.

Source: Antiques Road Trip, Series 2, Episode 20. (18:15 in on the iPlayer)

 
suze
781249.  Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:46 pm Reply with quote

Yes, the English word mosque probably came into our language from French, which in turn got it from Spanish (mezquita).

But does this really make it a GenIg? Consider this question:

Q: What is the main language of France?
K: French.
A: Franšais.

Is not this comparable?

 
Ian Dunn
781291.  Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:03 am Reply with quote

I suppose it might. I just thought it is interesting because masjid is the more correct turn.

 
Zarafa
781300.  Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:50 am Reply with quote

Muslims speaking in English often refer to the mosque, in the same way that if I were speaking in Arabic I would use the Arabic word for church. (Al-Kanisa, for the curious!)

A point of general ignorance might be that the term 'hijab' to refer to the contemporary practice of Muslim women's head coverings is misleading, according to scholar Nimat Hafez Barazangi and others. In chapter 3 of her book Woman's Identity and the Qur'an: A New Reading she outlines the accepted scholarly position that the term 'hijab' refers only to the wives of Muhammed and it means to speak to them from behind a curtain, screen, or divide. The head-cover, apparently, was also practiced before Islam to indicate modesty. (56-65).

On the other hand, many people, including Muslim women, commonly use this term to refer to practices (including but not limited to) the head covering that is a widely accepted understanding of both the symbol and practice of Islamic modesty. (Not everyone would agree that it's necessary to wear such a head covering to express/promote/practice modesty, which is why I'm using such woolly language here...) Despite scholarly specificity, this seems to now be the accepted term for describing sartorial modesty in the Muslim world. Rather like the 'when is a henge not a henge' question from the H series.

Barazangi further explains that the niqab, today perceived as an Islamic convention by many, is not found in the Qur'an and that Muhammed is known to have prevented Bedouin women from wearing their traditional face-covering while on hajj. (See Jamal Al Banna: Al Hijab 2007, p141-142; in which he also references Yousuf Al Qaradhawi: Al Niqab lil-Mar'a Bayn al-Qawl Bibd'iyatihi wa-al-Qawl Biwjubihi, pp 46-47).
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