View previous topic | View next topic

Modern Day Paupers' graves

Page 2 of 3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

bemahan
711079.  Thu May 20, 2010 2:25 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
I've made my family aware that what they do with the remains after I'm dead is entirely up to them - I won't care because, well, I'll be dead.


That's fine as long as the family agree on the method. If they have differing views then it's additional hassle at a time when you really want things to go smoothly. Although if you've already raised the subject with your family then, if they have differing views, they may well be able to settle on a style ahead of time.

 
Jenny
711192.  Thu May 20, 2010 10:33 am Reply with quote

I think having one's wishes clearly known is best. We had to live through all this last year after my stepson died. His wife insisted on a full-body burial at sea, which dragged the whole process out for months as the weather was not suitable for about five months after he died. She claimed they had a conversation about it and that it was his wish, but none of the rest of us had heard about this. It made it very hard on the rest of us - his parents had wanted a cremation at a normal funeral time and then an ash-scattering at sea when the weather permitted. Really, it was the first step in a series of events that have fractured relations with his wife irreparably.

 
suze
711216.  Thu May 20, 2010 11:26 am Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
But what if, say, you are an entirely a-religious person and they give you a full-blown church-based sendoff? Wouldn't you mind?


If you were an utterly areligious person who did not believe in any concept of the afterlife, you wouldn't mind at all because you'd be dead!


My husband and I are clear on what is to happen when one of us dies, and it's all written down as well. (My stepdaughter knows where to find those pieces of paper, just in case husband and I die in the same incident.)

If it's him, there is to be a non-religious ceremony at the crematorium, and that will be it. If it's me, I wish for the Funeral Liturgy Outside Of Mass to be performed by a Catholic priest (since few if any of those in attendance will be RCs, a Funeral Mass seems inappropriate, and in any case some priests would refuse one because I'm non-communicant), to be followed by cremation (the RCs still don't entirely approve of cremation, but it hasn't actually been forbidden since the 60s).

 
'yorz
711237.  Thu May 20, 2010 11:55 am Reply with quote

I was more referring to the thoroughly depressing church funerals. Never seen anybody come away with a smile, which tends to be the case with, say, woodland burials. These will be moving to start with, of course, but then much more upbeat, with speeches and music chosen to give people happy memories.
More my cup of tea.
But as I'm trying to get it organised that my various bits and bobs will be used for donation and/or science, it won't apply to me.

 
Ion Zone
711329.  Thu May 20, 2010 3:09 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
The baby that was taken was in a cardboard coffin.


A shoebox?

 
bobwilson
711376.  Thu May 20, 2010 6:34 pm Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
But what if, say, you are an entirely a-religious person and they give you a full-blown church-based sendoff? Wouldn't you mind?


Er - nope. I'd be dead. For all I care they can induct me into the Jehovah's Witness Hall of Fame and tell everyone I'd repented my sins on my deathbed if that's what floats their boat.

bemahan wrote:
That's fine as long as the family agree on the method. If they have differing views then it's additional hassle at a time when you really want things to go smoothly. Although if you've already raised the subject with your family then, if they have differing views, they may well be able to settle on a style ahead of time.


That's a fair point. On the whole I think they'll go for a C of E standard because there's some family members who are heavily inclined that way and the rest aren't bothered. But now you've mentioned it there's one person I might have to speak to who might just be daft enough to insist that "it isn't what he would have wanted".

suze wrote:
If you were an utterly areligious person who did not believe in any concept of the afterlife, you wouldn't mind at all because you'd be dead!


Ah - I see suze beat me to it.

On a slightly different but sort of related point to what bemahan said - there are some vicars around who are loathe to conduct church weddings for non-believers. My thoroughly Christianised sister switched churches when her then vicar refused to give communion to a divorcee (even though said divorcee was on the church committee). I wonder how they'd be with the funeral of a rabid atheist? If it weren't for the fact that it'd be distressing to others it'd be fun to die in a parish with a strictarian who refused to allow burial in the churchyard.

 
Spud McLaren
711385.  Thu May 20, 2010 6:51 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
If it weren't for the fact that it'd be distressing to others it'd be fun to die in a parish with a strictarian who refused to allow burial in the churchyard.
Well, it wouldn't be fun - you'd be dead!
(see above).




But I know what you mean...

 
suze
711386.  Thu May 20, 2010 6:52 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
On a slightly different but sort of related point to what bemahan said - there are some vicars around who are loathe to conduct church weddings for non-believers. My thoroughly Christianised sister switched churches when her then vicar refused to give communion to a divorcee (even though said divorcee was on the church committee). I wonder how they'd be with the funeral of a rabid atheist?


This is part of the reason why I wouldn't complicate matters by asking for a Funeral Mass.

As a person who has been divorced and then remarried, the RCs exclude me from the Eucharist. (To correct a common and understandable misconception, being excluded from Holy Communion is not the same thing as being excommunicated, which I haven't been.) As such, some stricter priests would decline to conduct a Funeral Mass for me. Many wouldn't, but neither my husband nor my stepdaughter is an RC, and it's likely to be one or the other who arranges my funeral. I can hardly expect whichever to debate the finer points of Catholic theology with whichever priest they approach.

 
bobwilson
711388.  Thu May 20, 2010 6:55 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, it wouldn't be fun - you'd be dead!
(see above).


It's a bugger isn't it - the time when you can really have fun is the one time when you're not around to enjoy the fireworks! I can just imagine the vicar mounting a picket at the gate sporting signs "Sorry* but no blasphemers or atheists"

*this is the CofE and they are terribly polite

 
bobwilson
711390.  Thu May 20, 2010 7:02 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
neither my husband nor my stepdaughter is an RC........I can hardly expect whichever to debate the finer points of Catholic theology with whichever priest they approach.


Au contraire. I find that non-religious people are much better equipped to debate theology with the clergy than religious people. I (for example) know the difference between excommunication and exclusion from holy communion - which is something my aforementioned christianised sister has some difficulty contemplating.

Incidentally, should it be "an RC" or "a RC". It's just that the former sounds, well, a bit like "an arsey" (which may be an apt description of me but isn't quite the image that the average RC might want to convey).

 
suze
711398.  Thu May 20, 2010 7:26 pm Reply with quote

I reckon it should be "an RC", on the basis that I would read it as "an ar see". "A Roman Catholic", but that's a bit long to use more than once per conversation!


On the main point, as you suggest it would perhaps be easier if the two people involved were either atheists or utterly areligious; they're not though. Both would probably describe themselves as agnostic, but I reckon that between them there's about 1.2 people who believe in God. (I know what I mean here, at any rate!)

My stepdaughter is to be married next year in an office of the Church of England, and is marrying into a C-of-E-going family. Her intended goes to church no more often than I do, but I don't know that an atheist would be welcomed into the family with open arms - which she pretty much has been.

 
bobwilson
711408.  Thu May 20, 2010 8:35 pm Reply with quote

Well, leaving aside the question of whether there is or isn't a God (and all the other associated questions) - it's nice to see that the Christian Churches are continuing the grand tradition of tolerance, forgiveness etc that are so central to their doctrines. Now - if we can just get them to look up the words in the dictionary........

 
bobwilson
711409.  Thu May 20, 2010 8:42 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
My stepdaughter is to be married


As an occasional watcher of Judge Judy I'm fascinated by her reactions to people who live together but aren't married. Invariably this consists of her asking something along the lines of "out of curiosity, why haven't you married".

(I should mention that it doesn't appear to affect her judgements).

I long for the day when somebody has the courage (and the absolutely clear cut case in their favour) to say something along the lines of "because my domestic arrangements are no business of the state, or some mythical being - now, can we get on with the case and would you mind if we didn't discuss your fetishes in the middle of this case?".

 
suze
711573.  Fri May 21, 2010 11:04 am Reply with quote

I tend to agree that it's really no one's business but the couple's whether they are married, or whether they prefer to live together outwith marriage.

Mind you, having done it both ways - my husband and I lived together for nearly six years before we tied the knot - I'd recommend marriage.

As for my stepdaughter and her fiancÚ, they have "officially" cohabited for less than one year, but unofficially (i.e. his name was not on the documents, and he nominally had another address but rarely did he spend the night at it) for a while before that. They are to marry next summer.

 
Sadurian Mike
711581.  Fri May 21, 2010 11:29 am Reply with quote

I imagine that a judge would be interested in why a couple didn't get married because it might point to underlying tensions in the relationship.

If they answer "because we just couldn't afford it/didn't want to/don't agree with it" then there is nothing to be learned.

If, however, they mention that the reason is that he keeps putting it off/she never wants to discuss it/my parents hate the idea, etc, then it could have a bearing on the background to a case. Not all, of course, but some.

 

Page 2 of 3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are GMT - 5 Hours


Display posts from previous:   

Search Search Forums

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group