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Modern Day Paupers' graves

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'yorz
710353.  Mon May 17, 2010 7:25 pm Reply with quote

Which all brings me to this question:
do graves in Britain get 'cleared' and, if so, after how many years?
In Holland there is the expression 'grafschudden' (shaking the grave) which means sifting the soil and collecting the remains, which then are reburied or cremated.
Because the country is densely populated, there is much demand for grave-space. You can buy your grave (or a whole family plot), or you 'lease' a grave, which lease can be extended as long as someone pays up. In case of payment lapse there will be reminders, and eventually the headstone will be removed and the grave cleared.

 
bobwilson
710368.  Mon May 17, 2010 8:10 pm Reply with quote

I don't know exactly how graveyards are managed - but I do think the Standard is doing its usual job of finding a wagon and installing a band - preferrably on the back of some individuals' genuine concern.

 
bemahan
710418.  Tue May 18, 2010 3:57 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
I don't know exactly how graveyards are managed - but I do think the Standard is doing its usual job of finding a wagon and installing a band - preferrably on the back of some individuals' genuine concern.


True, but from the sounds of it, it was about time some councils reviewed their policies/protocols for that particular subject.

 
Jenny
710580.  Tue May 18, 2010 1:51 pm Reply with quote

All of this makes an excellent case for cremation. My father was buried, and I found the whole box lowering into ground scenario awful. After my mother died we followed her wishes and had her cremated and buried the urn with her ashes in my father's grave. I thought that was a much better idea. When my in-laws died, they were both cremated, and when my first husband died I had him cremated and scattered his ashes on Biggin Hill airfield (strange choice of place maybe, but he loved to fly and that's where they took off from on the day he died) and had a memorial bush planted at the crematorium. When I die, I've told my family that I want to be cremated and my ashes scattered in the Atlantic Ocean, between my two countries, though actually I wouldn't mind a small portion of them being scattered in the cemetery behind my Quaker meeting house.

 
bemahan
710588.  Tue May 18, 2010 2:09 pm Reply with quote

Mine and bemahub's family tend to 'go' for cremation, as it were. My father was buried, as that was his wife's preference. I was unsure about it as had never been to a burial before. I sort of 'tuned out' at the bit where the coffin was lowered into the grave but did the throwing a soil into the grave. I am now quite glad that he was buried as it's a lovely cemetery and we like to visit his grave. I would still prefer to be cremated.
Bit of a crossover with discussion re Wills on the Venting thread - if you have strong feelings about how you would like your body to be disposed of, or what sort of funeral service you'd like, then put that in your Will. It also saves a lot of potential family anguish.

 
bobwilson
711062.  Wed May 19, 2010 7:26 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
When I die, I've told my family that I want...

Quote:
if you have strong feelings about how you would like your body to be disposed of.....

I've made my family aware that what they do with the remains after I'm dead is entirely up to them - I won't care because, well, I'll be dead.

 
'yorz
711076.  Thu May 20, 2010 1:18 am Reply with quote

That is true. What the family/friends do has more to to with them than with you. But what if, say, you are an entirely a-religious person and they give you a full-blown church-based sendoff? Wouldn't you mind?

 
bemahan
711079.  Thu May 20, 2010 2:25 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
I've made my family aware that what they do with the remains after I'm dead is entirely up to them - I won't care because, well, I'll be dead.


That's fine as long as the family agree on the method. If they have differing views then it's additional hassle at a time when you really want things to go smoothly. Although if you've already raised the subject with your family then, if they have differing views, they may well be able to settle on a style ahead of time.

 
Jenny
711192.  Thu May 20, 2010 10:33 am Reply with quote

I think having one's wishes clearly known is best. We had to live through all this last year after my stepson died. His wife insisted on a full-body burial at sea, which dragged the whole process out for months as the weather was not suitable for about five months after he died. She claimed they had a conversation about it and that it was his wish, but none of the rest of us had heard about this. It made it very hard on the rest of us - his parents had wanted a cremation at a normal funeral time and then an ash-scattering at sea when the weather permitted. Really, it was the first step in a series of events that have fractured relations with his wife irreparably.

 
suze
711216.  Thu May 20, 2010 11:26 am Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
But what if, say, you are an entirely a-religious person and they give you a full-blown church-based sendoff? Wouldn't you mind?


If you were an utterly areligious person who did not believe in any concept of the afterlife, you wouldn't mind at all because you'd be dead!


My husband and I are clear on what is to happen when one of us dies, and it's all written down as well. (My stepdaughter knows where to find those pieces of paper, just in case husband and I die in the same incident.)

If it's him, there is to be a non-religious ceremony at the crematorium, and that will be it. If it's me, I wish for the Funeral Liturgy Outside Of Mass to be performed by a Catholic priest (since few if any of those in attendance will be RCs, a Funeral Mass seems inappropriate, and in any case some priests would refuse one because I'm non-communicant), to be followed by cremation (the RCs still don't entirely approve of cremation, but it hasn't actually been forbidden since the 60s).

 
'yorz
711237.  Thu May 20, 2010 11:55 am Reply with quote

I was more referring to the thoroughly depressing church funerals. Never seen anybody come away with a smile, which tends to be the case with, say, woodland burials. These will be moving to start with, of course, but then much more upbeat, with speeches and music chosen to give people happy memories.
More my cup of tea.
But as I'm trying to get it organised that my various bits and bobs will be used for donation and/or science, it won't apply to me.

 
Ion Zone
711329.  Thu May 20, 2010 3:09 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
The baby that was taken was in a cardboard coffin.


A shoebox?

 
bobwilson
711376.  Thu May 20, 2010 6:34 pm Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
But what if, say, you are an entirely a-religious person and they give you a full-blown church-based sendoff? Wouldn't you mind?


Er - nope. I'd be dead. For all I care they can induct me into the Jehovah's Witness Hall of Fame and tell everyone I'd repented my sins on my deathbed if that's what floats their boat.

bemahan wrote:
That's fine as long as the family agree on the method. If they have differing views then it's additional hassle at a time when you really want things to go smoothly. Although if you've already raised the subject with your family then, if they have differing views, they may well be able to settle on a style ahead of time.


That's a fair point. On the whole I think they'll go for a C of E standard because there's some family members who are heavily inclined that way and the rest aren't bothered. But now you've mentioned it there's one person I might have to speak to who might just be daft enough to insist that "it isn't what he would have wanted".

suze wrote:
If you were an utterly areligious person who did not believe in any concept of the afterlife, you wouldn't mind at all because you'd be dead!


Ah - I see suze beat me to it.

On a slightly different but sort of related point to what bemahan said - there are some vicars around who are loathe to conduct church weddings for non-believers. My thoroughly Christianised sister switched churches when her then vicar refused to give communion to a divorcee (even though said divorcee was on the church committee). I wonder how they'd be with the funeral of a rabid atheist? If it weren't for the fact that it'd be distressing to others it'd be fun to die in a parish with a strictarian who refused to allow burial in the churchyard.

 
Spud McLaren
711385.  Thu May 20, 2010 6:51 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
If it weren't for the fact that it'd be distressing to others it'd be fun to die in a parish with a strictarian who refused to allow burial in the churchyard.
Well, it wouldn't be fun - you'd be dead!
(see above).




But I know what you mean...

 
suze
711386.  Thu May 20, 2010 6:52 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
On a slightly different but sort of related point to what bemahan said - there are some vicars around who are loathe to conduct church weddings for non-believers. My thoroughly Christianised sister switched churches when her then vicar refused to give communion to a divorcee (even though said divorcee was on the church committee). I wonder how they'd be with the funeral of a rabid atheist?


This is part of the reason why I wouldn't complicate matters by asking for a Funeral Mass.

As a person who has been divorced and then remarried, the RCs exclude me from the Eucharist. (To correct a common and understandable misconception, being excluded from Holy Communion is not the same thing as being excommunicated, which I haven't been.) As such, some stricter priests would decline to conduct a Funeral Mass for me. Many wouldn't, but neither my husband nor my stepdaughter is an RC, and it's likely to be one or the other who arranges my funeral. I can hardly expect whichever to debate the finer points of Catholic theology with whichever priest they approach.

 

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