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mckeonj
646793.  Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:13 pm Reply with quote

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
The Netherland (singular) is where the Dutch people live, and is often called Holland by English people.
The Netherlands (plural) includes all of the Netherland, and parts of England, France and Belgium etc. Also known as Flanders.
Holland is the name of one region of the Netherland, and also of one region of East Angular.

 
PDR
646800.  Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:01 pm Reply with quote

I thought it was that place you get to by heading for the third star to the right and then proceding rectilinearly until morning...

Actually I've always liked holland. I once commented to some of my dutch pals that it was embarrassing how well most dutch people spoke english, german and french. I was told this was simply because they recognised years ago that no one else would ever bother to learn dutch!

Nice people.

PDR

 
gruff5
646834.  Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:41 pm Reply with quote

Very tall, as well.

 
Jaster
647101.  Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:39 am Reply with quote

In Dutch - Nederland is the country
Nederlands are the low counties as you described

In English - the Netherlands is the country
the Low Counties are as you described

I don't claim the English is right, just the current usage, we get a lot of county names "wrong"

 
thedrew
647171.  Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:54 pm Reply with quote

"Dollar" does not come from Dutch, really, it comes from German. Joachimsthalers were minted in 1518 in Joachimsthal, Bohemia, H.R.E. The rijksdaalder was issued by the Dutch Republic, and therefore not before 1581. The oldest use of the word "dollar" is in MacBeth (c. 1605). While this use is certainly anachronistic (MacBeth was in the 11th century) he was referring to Danish currency - probably the rigsdaler. There are a number of records of anglophone use of "dollar" to mean some continental currency long before its use in the New World.

Bonbon is referring to the origin of the U.S. Dollar, which comes from the Dutch in New Netherlands (modern New York State) referring to Spanish Reales de a Ocho as "daalers" because the two coins were roughly equal in weight. Over about a century that word was anglicized as "dollar." Through that time, the Spanish Reales were most abundant and people tended to prefer these "dollar" coins to Continental bills.

The $'s origin is sketchy. Some say it comes from the figure 8, others say from ps (for peso) and others from the Spanish Coat of Arms showing the Pillars of Hercules.

While I'm on this kick, some other US currency etymology:

$0.01 Penny - from the Old German Pfand meaning "pan" via the British pence.

$0.05 Nickel (originally Half-Disme) - obvious.

$0.10 Dime (originally Disme) - from Simon Stevinus mathmatics paper "De Thiende" which advocated for the use of disme (Dutch for "tenth").

$0.25 Quarter Dollar - obvious. Also called "two bits" from the original use of Real pieces of eight.

$1 - Dollar - see above. Also called "buck," short for buckskins used for trading with Native Americans.

$5 - Five Dollars - Also called "fin" from the Yiddish "finf" for five.

$10 - Ten Dollars - Also called "sawbuck" as the bills used to have a large roman numeral X which looked like frontier sawhorses. Sometimes "Hamilton" though mostly tounge-in-cheek, "Benjamin" see below. (The abundant printing of these notes by the Bank of New Orleans with the French "Dix" in large lettering led to the South being called "Dixieland").

$100 - One Hundred Dollars - Also called "C-note" for the old bill with the Roman numeral on it, or just "note." More recently "Benjamin" or "Benji" for Benjamin Franklin's portrait.

$1,000 - One Thousand Dollars - no longer printed. Since the 1910s called "grand" "G" and more recently "large" (twenty large = $20,000).

 
gerontius grumpus
647880.  Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:28 pm Reply with quote

$0.01 Penny - from the Old German Pfand meaning "pan" via the British pence.
[/quote]

Pence is the plural of penny, the British 0.01 is still called a penny, just as it was before decimalisation. The word pence was used before decimalisation in words like sixpence and fourpence.

 
nitwit02
647965.  Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:26 pm Reply with quote

In Canada, 1c coins are often called pennies.

 
bobwilson
648009.  Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:24 am Reply with quote

Quote:
The word pence was used before decimalisation in words like sixpence and fourpence.


The word pence was never used - the suffix pence was used. sixpence, tuppence, thruppence, fourpence. But never pence alone.

 
graytart
648030.  Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:59 am Reply with quote

nitwit02 wrote:
In Canada, 1c coins are often called pennies.

And in the US...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uROuR3Jm6M

 
Spud McLaren
648951.  Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:15 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
Quote:
The word pence was used before decimalisation in words like sixpence and fourpence.


The word pence was never used - the suffix pence was used. sixpence, tuppence, thruppence, fourpence. But never pence alone.
Really? Google "costing mere pence", or "costing few pence". I find it hard to believe that this usage came in only post-decimalisation. I'm sure I've read similar expressions in the works of Dickens, etc.

If there is any credence to be placed on a wiki entry, one reads,"In the United States and Canada, "penny" is normally used to refer to the coin; the quantity of money is a "cent". Elsewhere in the English-speaking world, the plural of "penny" is "pence" when referring to a quantity of money and "pennies" when referring to a number of coins."

Looks right to me.

 
thedrew
649010.  Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:41 pm Reply with quote

Yes, I meant "penny" in that earlier case. I also meant "English" as the term arrived to the new world long before the Act of Union.

I would guess "pence" is derived from "pfand" via penny and not the other way around.

 
Ian Dunn
656797.  Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:54 pm Reply with quote

An entire page is devoted to The Hague in the 2010 Schott's Almanac.

Quote:
The Hague (Den Haag in Dutch) is the third largest city in the Netherlands, and the capital of the province of South Holland. In 2008, its population was 475,904. The origins of the city lie with a castle built between 1230-80, by Count William II of Holland, which served as a hunting lodge and meeting place for local aristocrats. In 1586, The Hague was chosen as the seat of Dutch parliament, and over the next few centuries it became an intellectual and cultural centre as well as a neutral meeting ground for the European powers. In 1899, the city hosted a major international peace conference at which 26 nations agreed to one of the first modern codifications of the laws of war; the Hague Convention. This conference also established the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) - the first court ever established to settle international law and diplomancy, and today the city is home to scores of international organisations, including the judicial bodies below:


  • International Court of Justice (ICJ): Founded in 1945 as the primary judicial body for the UN, the ICJ settles legal disputes between nations and gives advisory opinions to international organisations. Decisions are made by 15 judges elected by the UN General Assembly and Security Council
  • International Criminal Court (ICC): The world's first permanent war crimes tribunal founded by international treaty in 2002. A "court of last resort", the ICC prosecutes individuals charged with the gravest international crimes. At the time of writing, the court had taken up four cases, all from Africa.
  • International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY): A UN body established by Security Council Resolution 827 in 1993 to prosecutre perpetrators of war crimes in the former Yugoslavia. Among others, the court indicted former Yugoslavian President Slobodan Milosevic, in 1999.
  • [i]Iran-United States Claims Tribunal (IUSCT): Created by the 1981 Algiers Accords as a third-party court to deal with the disbursment of Iranian funds frozen by the US in the 1979 Iranian Embassy hostage crisis. While the deadline for filing new private claims was 1982, several major cases between Iran and the US remain outstanding.
  • [i]Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA): Established in 1899, the PCA is no longer a court in the usual sense, but provides a framework of service for resolving international disputes that may involve states, intergovernmental organisations and private parties.
  • [i]Special Court for Sierra Leone (SCSL): An independent judicial body created by the UN and Government of Siera Leone to try those who committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in Sierra Leone after 30 November 1996.
  • [i]Special Tribunal for Lebanon (STL): Established by an agreement between the UN and Lebanon to try those suspected of the 2005 attack that killed former Lebanese PM Rafiq Hariri. No suspects have yet been named.


Images of storks are found throughout The Hague, including on the city's logo and coat of arms. The animals nested around the city in the Middle Ages, and were seen as omens of luck and prosperity.

 
djgordy
656890.  Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:23 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:

The word pence was never used - the suffix pence was used. sixpence, tuppence, thruppence, fourpence. But never pence alone.


The etymological dictionary gives "pence" as going back to 1393.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=pence&searchmode=none

I would say that, generally, prior to decimalisation, "pennies" was used to denote a plurality of penny coins and pence was used to denote a plurality of value.

 
The Great Prickly of Pear
658696.  Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:14 pm Reply with quote

Jaster wrote:
In Dutch - Nederland is the country
Nederlands are the low counties as you described

It's actually "de Nederlanden". You can tell because of the official name of the entire kingdom (including Aruba and the Dutch Antilles, which don't fall under Dutch government), Koninkrijk der Nederlanden (der is archaic, it means "of the", just like in German) :)

 
Stefan Linnemann
758710.  Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:21 am Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
I thought it was that place you get to by heading for the third star to the right and then proceding rectilinearly until morning...

Actually I've always liked holland. I once commented to some of my dutch pals that it was embarrassing how well most dutch people spoke english, german and french. I was told this was simply because they recognised years ago that no one else would ever bother to learn dutch!

Nice people.

PDR


Why, thank you.

However, However, I think our mastery of languages stems rather from:
1. Having been ruled by every major European country, except the UK.
2. A keen awareness, that if you trade with a country and speak its language and know its culture, you're much more likely to get a profitable deal. (Or indeed, deal at all: Japan).

Mazur.

 

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