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suze
641999.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:04 pm Reply with quote

The Cornish independence brigade are harmless - it's little more than a bunch of guys with beards and unfashionable tastes in knitwear.

See post 267106 for an attempted explanation of the legal argument that Cornwall is not part of England.

 
austinallegro
642007.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:18 pm Reply with quote

There is a big distinction between someone who's main argument is "Lots of people come to Cornwall for nothing else but tourism" and "Many hundreds of years of brutality and terrorism"

 
Sadurian Mike
642043.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:36 pm Reply with quote

Not really. It may change the reasons why the people want independence, but not the legitimacy of the claim.

 
thedrew
642121.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:26 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The Cornish independence brigade are harmless - it's little more than a bunch of guys with beards and unfashionable tastes in knitwear.


They sound like the Second Vermont Republic

Incidentally, Vermont was a Republic separate from the original 13 United States purely by accident. Vermont had been granted self-rule by the Governor of New York however this fact wasn't terribly clear to James Madison and the other members of the Continental Congress. When drafting the US Consitution they recognized 13 original states, but understood that Vermont would become separate and would want to join the Union. Article 4, Section 3 of the US Constitution was created to allow for Vermont to join later (as they did in 1791). This provision was used to admit 36 other states so far admitted.

Whilst the Cornish have a better claim on soverinity than the Second Vermont Republic (having been independent, at most, for 14 years) - I suspect it's the same type of people that are drawn to such groups.

 
Ion Zone
642209.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:23 am Reply with quote

Like Wales and Scotland, they may want to be separate, but I doubt it's in their best interests, and they probably wouldn't enjoy it much once they got it. One of the really good things about the United Kingdom is that if one bit has a problem, all the other bits can help. Like what the EU wants to be, only with a hope of working, better coinage, and about 2% of the bureaucracy (when someone good is in power).

 
Jenny
642295.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:20 pm Reply with quote

Ion Zone wrote:
about 2% of the bureaucracy (when someone good is in power).


Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?

 
Sadurian Mike
642301.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:29 pm Reply with quote

I have no idea. I think we should set up a department to look into that.

 
Jenny
642302.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:29 pm Reply with quote

:-)

 
thedrew
642413.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:27 pm Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
Ion Zone wrote:
about 2% of the bureaucracy (when someone good is in power).


Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?


How does one measure bureaucracy?

 
Sadurian Mike
642476.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:59 am Reply with quote

With a red tape measure.

 
Flash
642488.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:40 am Reply with quote

That's an excellent joke.

Incidentally, as far as Jenny's question:
Quote:
Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?

goes, this effect is apparently claimed for the Cuban Revolution:
Quote:
The internal logic of the fidelista formula dictated that the role of the bureaucracy be reduced as much as possible. ...

(The Cuban Revolution: Economic Organization and Bureaucracy, Nelson P. Valdes, Latin American Perspectives, Vol. 6, No. 1, Socialism and Imperialism in the Caribbean (Winter, 1979), pp. 13-37)

... and also for the Iranian Revolution, where the bureaucracy was regarded as inextricably intertwined with the Pahlavi regime: (Handbook of Bureaucracy by Ali Farazmand p682, Debureaucratization of Iran: 1979-82).

 
Neotenic
642492.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:53 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?


It's partly painful, and partly wholly expected that I should mention this, but I suppose it could be said that The Tony & Gordon Show did bring about a reduction in red tape by merging a number of regulatory bodies into the single entity known as the FSA.

 
Jenny
642569.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:42 am Reply with quote

My goodness, it actually has happened! Now there's unexpected.

 
Flash
642597.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:20 pm Reply with quote

Neotenic wrote:
it could be said that The Tony & Gordon Show did bring about a reduction in red tape by merging a number of regulatory bodies into the single entity known as the FSA.

But a) not an overall reduction in bureaucracy across the country as a whole and b) not really a reduction in bureaucracy even in financial regulation, since the FSA has a much wider remit now than its predecessors did in aggregate when they were merged.

 
Neotenic
642661.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:06 pm Reply with quote

Yes - I agree it is a little bit tentative - but there isn't any bureaucracy that could be reduced that would affect the country as a whole, really.

Plus, big financial companies that had to deal with a number of the seperate regulators ended up with a single point of contact, a single set of returns to complete and a single fee to pay.

I also wonder how much time and effort was spent by the PIA, the SFA and IMRO referring befuddled folks to the the right body.

I'll cheerfully concede thatin the grand scheme of things, it isn't an enormous reduction - but I still think (at least until 2005 when M&GI brokers joined the fold) it did represent some scaling back in the red tape.

 

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