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Ian Dunn
641875.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:20 am Reply with quote

The place in England that least likes English Heritage is probably Cornwall.

In 1999, the Revived Cornish Stannary Parliament - which is not a parliament in any legal sense, but a pressure group supporting Cornish sovereignty removed and defaced English Heritage signs as part of Operation Chough, claiming that it was evidence of the English stealing what was really Cornish heritage.

In 2002, three members of the group agreed to return signs and pay English Heritage 4,500 compensation.

 
austinallegro
641899.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:50 am Reply with quote

The Cornish indpendance people do irritate me somewhat.

 
Sadurian Mike
641910.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:14 am Reply with quote

There is surely little difference between Cornwall calling for independence and Scotland or Wales (or Ireland, for that matter) doing the same thing. You could extend this to the constituent parts of any nation; the former USSR, the former Yugoslavia, the former Czechoslovakia, and so on.

It was once an independent kingdom and is now part of a larger body, whether you choose to call it Britain, Great Britain, the UK or England.

Incidentally, before I get hauled over the coals for being a Cornish Independence sympathiser, I am not. I am just pointing out that they have just as much right to demonstrate for independence as those other places. Also just as much right to be prosecuted for criminal acts, but they have the same moral ground.

 
suze
641999.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:04 pm Reply with quote

The Cornish independence brigade are harmless - it's little more than a bunch of guys with beards and unfashionable tastes in knitwear.

See post 267106 for an attempted explanation of the legal argument that Cornwall is not part of England.

 
austinallegro
642007.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:18 pm Reply with quote

There is a big distinction between someone who's main argument is "Lots of people come to Cornwall for nothing else but tourism" and "Many hundreds of years of brutality and terrorism"

 
Sadurian Mike
642043.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:36 pm Reply with quote

Not really. It may change the reasons why the people want independence, but not the legitimacy of the claim.

 
thedrew
642121.  Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:26 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The Cornish independence brigade are harmless - it's little more than a bunch of guys with beards and unfashionable tastes in knitwear.


They sound like the Second Vermont Republic

Incidentally, Vermont was a Republic separate from the original 13 United States purely by accident. Vermont had been granted self-rule by the Governor of New York however this fact wasn't terribly clear to James Madison and the other members of the Continental Congress. When drafting the US Consitution they recognized 13 original states, but understood that Vermont would become separate and would want to join the Union. Article 4, Section 3 of the US Constitution was created to allow for Vermont to join later (as they did in 1791). This provision was used to admit 36 other states so far admitted.

Whilst the Cornish have a better claim on soverinity than the Second Vermont Republic (having been independent, at most, for 14 years) - I suspect it's the same type of people that are drawn to such groups.

 
Ion Zone
642209.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:23 am Reply with quote

Like Wales and Scotland, they may want to be separate, but I doubt it's in their best interests, and they probably wouldn't enjoy it much once they got it. One of the really good things about the United Kingdom is that if one bit has a problem, all the other bits can help. Like what the EU wants to be, only with a hope of working, better coinage, and about 2% of the bureaucracy (when someone good is in power).

 
Jenny
642295.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:20 pm Reply with quote

Ion Zone wrote:
about 2% of the bureaucracy (when someone good is in power).


Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?

 
Sadurian Mike
642301.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:29 pm Reply with quote

I have no idea. I think we should set up a department to look into that.

 
Jenny
642302.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:29 pm Reply with quote

:-)

 
thedrew
642413.  Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:27 pm Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
Ion Zone wrote:
about 2% of the bureaucracy (when someone good is in power).


Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?


How does one measure bureaucracy?

 
Sadurian Mike
642476.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:59 am Reply with quote

With a red tape measure.

 
Flash
642488.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:40 am Reply with quote

That's an excellent joke.

Incidentally, as far as Jenny's question:
Quote:
Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?

goes, this effect is apparently claimed for the Cuban Revolution:
Quote:
The internal logic of the fidelista formula dictated that the role of the bureaucracy be reduced as much as possible. ...

(The Cuban Revolution: Economic Organization and Bureaucracy, Nelson P. Valdes, Latin American Perspectives, Vol. 6, No. 1, Socialism and Imperialism in the Caribbean (Winter, 1979), pp. 13-37)

... and also for the Iranian Revolution, where the bureaucracy was regarded as inextricably intertwined with the Pahlavi regime: (Handbook of Bureaucracy by Ali Farazmand p682, Debureaucratization of Iran: 1979-82).

 
Neotenic
642492.  Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:53 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Can anybody cite any historical occasion within the last couple of centuries when a change of government has led to any reduction in bureaucracy?


It's partly painful, and partly wholly expected that I should mention this, but I suppose it could be said that The Tony & Gordon Show did bring about a reduction in red tape by merging a number of regulatory bodies into the single entity known as the FSA.

 

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