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Alfred E Neuman
633880.  Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:52 am Reply with quote

Thanks Moosh, she's also the reference who says that the first pineapple in Britain was presented to Oliver Cromwell, who was born in 1599.

633917.  Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:11 am Reply with quote

There's a portrait of Charles II being presented with a Pineapple in 1675, not the first one to arrive, but the first one to have been grown in England. It's generally agreed that Columbus brought them back to Europe in the late C15th, and there was a bit of a craze for them in England in the C17th where they start cropping up as architectural devices all over the shop.

634583.  Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:19 pm Reply with quote

soup wrote:
Spud McLaren wrote:

Honi soit qui mal y pense
Touch not the cat bot [without] a glove

I take it that is a true translation of that motto.
As when I was in the Engineers I was told that it was, something like, The same (evil) to he who thinks evil.

I wonder whether the 'bot' in that second motto is related to the 'baht', meaning without, in 'On Ilkley Moor baht 'at'.

Spud McLaren
634584.  Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:21 pm Reply with quote

Yes, I'm sure it is.

634694.  Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:48 am Reply with quote

Nemo me impune lacessit
Touch me not with impunity

634894.  Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:39 pm Reply with quote

mckeonj wrote:
Nemo me impune lacessit
Touch me not with impunity

I always thought that meant 'nobody assails me with impunity'? But I am not a Latin scholar.

653368.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:14 am Reply with quote

meet my family sheild, apparently.

This is a subject that I actually enjoy looking into. Especially the colours and their rules. You have gold, white, blue, red, purple, black and green. Gold and white are metals, whilst the rest are colours. You can't place a metal on a metal, but a colour can be palced on another colour. The sheild can also have what they call divisions of the field, that is, lines that split the sheild int sections. For example, my shield has a party per chevron in black upon a white background.

I could go on, but then I would get a headache.

653434.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:28 am Reply with quote

Why did the College of Arms object to the original proposal for the Coat of Arms of the Province of British Columbia?

Last edited by thedrew on Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

653464.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:06 pm Reply with quote

Gold of the sunrays on the white stripes ?

According to phildavo18

Gold and white are metals, whilst the rest are colours. You can't place a metal on a metal

653477.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:31 pm Reply with quote

Ah, now I know the answer to this.

It's because that design shows the sun setting over the British Empire, a thing which - according to an adage - never happens. It was thus redesigned with the Union Flag above the setting sun.

653488.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:56 pm Reply with quote


The College of Arms was more than happy to correct that minor violation.

What they objected to was the use of the Royal Crest, which is exclusive to the monarch. They also did not approve of use of supporters, as no other Province had at the time.

When BC's Parliament received the response from the College of Arms, they accepted the reversed shield, but continued to use the supporters and crest without permission until 1987 when the current design (with a helm) was adopted and the use of the Royal Crest (with a dogwood garland) was given special approval by the Queen.

Last edited by thedrew on Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

653496.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:14 pm Reply with quote

Magnificent stuff - thanks, thedrew.

The explanation which British Columbians are (or were, thirty or so years ago) taught in junior high is the one which was roundly klaxoned. The poor fellow died quite a while ago, but otherwise I'd be sending a stern e-mail to my old History teacher!

653653.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:16 pm Reply with quote

So nothing to do with gold on white then?
I am most miffed.

653659.  Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:08 pm Reply with quote

It's ok as long as the sun is outlined in black, I think. I am mostly familiar with the rule of tinture becuase it shows up in the reversal of the stripes on the Great Seal of the United States from the stripes on Old Glory:

Red, white, red....

Argent, gules, argent....

Congress intentionally blazoned this as "Paleways of 13 pieces, argent and gules; a chief, azure," even though paly should be even in number so that it would highlight the number 13 - a reference to the 13 colonies of course.

1213923.  Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:52 pm Reply with quote

I wasn't sure where to post this but this thread came up when I did a search on "honi soit qui mal y pense" so thought it might as well go here.
I have an old blue velvet strap with a gold metal buckle with paste "diamonds" in it. It's a family item but we have no idea where it came from. Embroidered on the blue velvet is the above motto. The lining is falling off but the rest is in good nick. The embroidery is in metal thread and looks very old. I looked up the Order of the Garter and this looks like the Garter bit of the regalia. However, the Order is only awarded to a very few, very high-ranking people so the chances that I have a 'real' one are nil, even if the real ones do have yellow metal and paste stones.
So, would reproduction garters be made? And if so, for what purpose? Maybe as part of a theatrical costume?
Any ideas?
Edit - just had a thought - there was a family member who was a freemason so I shall check if it's to do with that. We haven't come across any other masonic regalia though.


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