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tetsabb
631897.  Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:41 am Reply with quote

exnihilo wrote:
When the Earl of Crawford and Balcarres was installed as Rector of St Andrews University one of the Halls of Residence presented him with a kitten and a leather gauntlet, in recognition of his family motto.


Kinky!

Though I will confess to some confusion -- having just looked at a site about the above Earl, it would appear that their motto is 'Endure fort'; I can't force any reference to kittens or leather gauntlets using my limited knowledge of French or Latin.

 
exnihilo
631900.  Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:52 am Reply with quote

It was a reference to "touch not a cat but a glove", but now I can't seem to connect him to that motto in any way. The thing is I can vividly remember the photograph of him being presented with said items, and a quick glance at a list of Rectors is not offering any alternative candidate I might be confusing him with. Strange.

 
suze
631910.  Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:28 pm Reply with quote

96aelw wrote:
I'm afraid that Sir George's Latin is quite correct (well, I don't know how it is in general, but that phrase is fine). It could be translated more pedantically as "There is a need only for love"; he's using the phrase "opus est" to express need (with opus being the subject and therefore in the nominative), and, in such circumstances, the thing needed, in this case love, goes into the ablative.


Thanks 96; I should leave Latin to people who actually understand it! So if opus is the subject, the motto would in fact be better translated as "all you need is love", which seems appropriate.

Now then, I must write out 500 times

"Suzanne, review the uses of the instrumental case in Polish, it being the nearest equivalent the language has to the Latin ablative. Then note that it isn't used identically in Latin, and neither is there any reason why it should be."

 
mckeonj
631936.  Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:03 pm Reply with quote

Not strictly about heraldry; there is in St Mary's Cathedral in Limerick a carved wooden bench, of Jacobean or earlier provenance, decorated with a head portrait (which could be anybody) and the Latin motto:
Republica Factum Est.
Cromwell's forces occupied the cathedral and used it as a stable; they also smashed most of the medieval carvings which decorated the pillars.
I am of the opinion that this phrase (from the writings of Chickpea) could be construed either as:
The Republic is complete,
or,
The Republic is finished
depending on who won, and that the portrait is deliberately ambiguous.

 
Celebaelin
632352.  Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:44 pm Reply with quote

Celebaelin wrote:
...at least one Wiki article states they were active in 1941, when he was 12 - on the other hand Wiki may be wrong and/or the award of arms may have occurred some time after the war. I'll check when I next speak to him...

As I suspected 5003 and 5004 did not have coats of arms until after the war.

 
Spud McLaren
632407.  Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:09 pm Reply with quote

"Touch not the cat..." seems to be the motto of Clan Mcpherson.

 
Celebaelin
633449.  Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:32 am Reply with quote

News on "Omnia ad Aedificationem"

It's from the Latin Bible: Corinthians Ch.XIV, 26 and translates rather lengthily as

"Let all things be done with a view to building things up and making them better than they are at present"

 
soup
633493.  Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:48 pm Reply with quote

Spud McLaren wrote:

Honi soit qui mal y pense
Touch not the cat bot [without] a glove


I take it that is a true translation of that motto.
As when I was in the Engineers I was told that it was, something like, The same (evil) to he who thinks evil.

 
Spud McLaren
633496.  Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:21 pm Reply with quote

No, they're 2 separate mottos. I believe your translation of the first one is correct, but I'm no expert in archaic French.

 
Moosh
633615.  Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:43 pm Reply with quote

Honi soit qui mal y pense is the motto of (amongst other things) the Order of the Garter and is usually translated as "Shame on him who thinks evil of it".

 
Sadurian Mike
633617.  Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:47 pm Reply with quote

Which is a suitably defensive motto for an order promoting garter-wearing amongst men.

 
samivel
633650.  Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:46 pm Reply with quote

<snigger>

 
Alfred E Neuman
633790.  Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:23 am Reply with quote

According to a couple of websites the coat of arms for my surname has an arm sticking out the top holding three pineapples.

The question is, if they say the coat of arms dates from 1584, when were pineapples first introduced into Britain?

I've searched high and low and can't find the answer. Apparently Christopher Columbus brought them to Europe. Some say the first pineapple in Britain was presented to Oliver Cromwell, but if my ancestors* were using them as weapons in 1584, that's unlikely.


* Yes, I know that I'm probably not even related to the family that were given the coat of arms. Especially if they were using pineapples as weapons, as they'd not have lasted long into the 17th century like that.

 
Moosh
633871.  Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:45 am Reply with quote

According to Fran Beauman, speaking on the Museum of Curiosity, the pineapple arrived in England in the 17th century. So I'm not sure about them featuring on a coat of arms in 1584.

 
stee
633877.  Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:50 am Reply with quote

From Wiki (which is, in turn, from the OED)

Quote:
The word pineapple in English was first recorded in 1398, when it was originally used to describe the reproductive organs of conifer trees (now termed pine cones). my bold

When European explorers discovered this tropical fruit, they called them pineapples (term first recorded in that sense in 1664) because of their resemblance to what is now known as the pine cone. The term pine cone was first recorded in 1694 and was used to replace the original meaning of pineapple.[3]


So is it possible that your coat of arms has pine cones Alfred, and that this word just hasn't been changed in heraldic circles?

 

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