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Hadrian's Wall

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brunel
639902.  Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:25 pm Reply with quote

[quote="Southpaw"]Not unlikely, the Romans were champion wood-wall builders. The usual order of business (it was in fact part of military regulations for any major unit) at the end of a day's march was to build a fort from scratch, by digging a large rectangular ditch, using the earth to build a rampart, then building a log wall on top of that. The whole thing would be completed in a few hours.[/quote]

Given your post, I would agree that it would be reasonable to expect that there could have been a simple wooden wall, coupled with earth banks and ditches to form a temporary defensive structure whilst work continued on the later stone wall.
After all, it probably would not have been much more complex then the defences they would build for their camps, and it would have been a relatively quick way to consolidate their gains and hold their position. But, I doubt it would have been quite as complex as envisaged by Carter; I think that he might be a little optimistic about some of his post hole evidence.

 
gerontius grumpus
639921.  Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:31 pm Reply with quote

Southpaw wrote:
Not unlikely, the Romans were champion wood-wall builders. The usual order of business (it was in fact part of military regulations for any major unit) at the end of a day's march was to build a fort from scratch, by digging a large rectangular ditch, using the earth to build a rampart, then building a log wall on top of that. The whole thing would be completed in a few hours.


That's stretching it a bit. A marching camp was surrounded by a ditch and low rampart topped with a pallisade made from pila murales, not logs. This would be considerably smaller than the turf and timber ramparts reconstructed at the Lunt. All the same, there are plenty of Roman marching camps in Britain where you can still see the outline of the ditches and ramparts. Chew Green is a good example.

 
Sadurian Mike
639946.  Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:02 pm Reply with quote

The point is that Hadrian's Wall was evisaged from the outset as a stone fortification. Now the Romans were quite capable of building elaborate wooden defences, but I doubt that they would have done so when the stone equivalent was likely to be ready within a couple of years*.


*Yes, I realise the wall wasn't finished in a couple of years, but it was almost certainly enough to act as a good defensive structure well before all the finishing touches were added.

 
gerontius grumpus
640849.  Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:07 pm Reply with quote

I'm wondering if there could be some confusion between between the wooden wall discussed in this thread and the turf wall of which remains are well known. The turf wall was that part of Hadrian's wall west of the river Irthing as originally built (the wall, not the river).
The turf wall was rebuilt in stone fairly soon after it was completed, but parts of the new rebuild followed a slightly different course, which is convenient for the archaeologists.

 
Sadurian Mike
640916.  Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:43 am Reply with quote

Quite possible. It wouldn't be the first time that inconvenient facts have been overlooked or fuzzily interpreted to present a radical new theory that ensures the historian's name gets prominent attention.

 
Jaster
647377.  Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:37 am Reply with quote

Wow this is the Geoff Carter I used to work with!

(Oddly in Telecomms , why are there so many archeologists and Geologists working in Telecomms ?)

 
Jenny
647529.  Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:10 pm Reply with quote

My husband is reading a book called Britannia, about Roman Britain, and came up with something I thought QI. The book was written in the 60s so might be outdated though.

The US government is infamous for veering from one military tactic or objective to another with a change of President. The same thing happened in Roman Britain.

Hadrian had his wall built - it was just about complete and and was garrisoned to provide a separation between the Selgovae and the Brigantes. No sooner did they get that finished than Hadrian died in 138AD. Then Antoninus Pius takes over as Emperor, and undertakes an entirely different policy - to take back the Lowlands of what is now Scotland by building the Antonine wall and taking all the garrisons off Hadrian's Wall. Then (although there is little evidence for this) it seems that the Brigantes started causing trouble again, and they had to withdraw back to Hadrian's wall because they had stretched themselves too thin to keep control. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (can't do the accents but you know what I mean).

 
mckeonj
647553.  Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:53 pm Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (can't do the accents but you know what I mean).

You can get accented vowels like this on a regular keyboard; just hold down the Alt Gr key (just right of the space bar) and type the vowel - voil!

 
Jenny
647563.  Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:05 pm Reply with quote

I don't have a Gr key - there is an Alt key to the right of the space bar but that doesn't do it. Then there is a key that brings up the same menu I get with a right mouse button click, and then there is a Control key.

 
Efros
647674.  Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:08 am Reply with quote

This thread brought to mind an album by Mike Neville called 'Son of Geordie' which had a mock history of the Geordie culture (?) tracing its roots back to Hadrian who 'was an Eyetalian Spaniard... poor bugger'. the same album maintained that Mary Queen of Scots had her head chopped off by a man wielding a 'gnarly git choppin' axe', it was also the first or should that be fust time I had heard the Geordie scout and Custer joke concerning '"War drums?", "Why no man they wur theirs!"

 
Efros
647675.  Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:10 am Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
I don't have a Gr key - there is an Alt key to the right of the space bar but that doesn't do it. Then there is a key that brings up the same menu I get with a right mouse button click, and then there is a Control key.


You only get Alt Gr on US international keyboards, US keyboards have two alt keys.

 
soup
647683.  Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:58 am Reply with quote

Efros wrote:
Jenny wrote:
I don't have a Gr key - there is an Alt key to the right of the space bar but that doesn't do it. Then there is a key that brings up the same menu I get with a right mouse button click, and then there is a Control key.


You only get Alt Gr on US international keyboards, US keyboards have two alt keys.


Sounds about right, the keyboard I am using now (bought in Scotland made by a Californian company [Genius]) has one Alt key and one AltGr key

 
gerontius grumpus
647875.  Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:12 pm Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
I don't have a Gr key - there is an Alt key to the right of the space bar but that doesn't do it. Then there is a key that brings up the same menu I get with a right mouse button click, and then there is a Control key.


I think you're meant to growl as you press the Alt key. Perhaps it should be Alt Grrrr..

 
gerontius grumpus
647905.  Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:07 pm Reply with quote

Come to think of it, I'd quite like a keboard with a Grrr key, quite useful in a grumpy kind of way.

 
Jaster
648928.  Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:46 am Reply with quote

Mine has n "Any" Key ....!

 

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