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suze
615708.  Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:27 pm Reply with quote

Ooh, now that's interesting. We are told that "the women were measured in their underwear, and so the larger bust is at least in part an effect of brassieres".

So is it in fact not that Japanese women have larger breasts than hitherto, but that they wear padded bras so as to appear the same shape as Western women? And if so, why - I can't see why Japanese men would suddenly have decided that they like their women to appear bustier than they have in the past.

 
Peregrine Arkwright
615765.  Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:27 pm Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
Peregrine Arkwright wrote:
.
Could it simply be that if you live in a very low country you need to be tall enough to see over the dykes?


I would see that as more of an issue on Saphos than the Low Countries, surely?

PDR


It's a bit like laying bait for lobsters, isn't it?

Peregrine Arkwright

 
PDR
615804.  Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:01 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Ooh, now that's interesting. We are told that "the women were measured in their underwear, and so the larger bust is at least in part an effect of brassieres".

So is it in fact not that Japanese women have larger breasts than hitherto, but that they wear padded bras so as to appear the same shape as Western women? And if so, why - I can't see why Japanese men would suddenly have decided that they like their women to appear bustier than they have in the past.


Straying into slightly unsavory areas here, but a heck of a lot of japanese porn (some of it in the cartoon books and animated film)focuses on "round-eye" women who are depicted as curvatious and well-busted. There seems to be something of a represed desire for such things in the Japanese culture, and it finds its expression in this rather extreme way.

The material itself is actually quite disturbing, with a strong dominance/violence/compulsion element that is only present in the most extreme "specialist market" areas of western pornography - areas that are usually deemed illegal in the UK and USA.

I suspect you could learn quite a lot about a culture by studying its pornography preferences - in my case the japanese material came to my attention when I was working in South Australia and the wife of a colleague was studying it as part of her masters in Japanese Studies. But I've never had the courage to walk into a shop in a foreign country and buy a girly magazine - I must be a complete wus!

Just occured to me. This aspect is also a feature of the plot in Iain M Banks' rather good "Player of Games" - it comes after the revelation that one of the drone robots goes birdwatching in its spare time (which I've always tjought very funny - perhaps you had to be there).

PDR

 
exnihilo
615810.  Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:51 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Ooh, now that's interesting. We are told that "the women were measured in their underwear, and so the larger bust is at least in part an effect of brassieres".

So is it in fact not that Japanese women have larger breasts than hitherto, but that they wear padded bras so as to appear the same shape as Western women? And if so, why - I can't see why Japanese men would suddenly have decided that they like their women to appear bustier than they have in the past.


It's none too sudden. I remember a "pop history" class I took many, many years ago in which the tutor showed us piles of magazines from around the world and asked us what we noticed about them. What we were meant to notice was that they all carried the same "westernised" depiction of female beauty. He was making a point about globalisation, but it applies here too, there's a very considerable notion in Japan (especially) that western equals good, and American particularly, leading to a valuing of such significant things as a more western body shape and rounder eyes all the way down to simply owning American branded clothing.

 
suze
615818.  Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:21 pm Reply with quote

Thanks PDR and exnihilo. So ultimately, it's just another manifestation of the Japanese desire to mimic the USA.

Leaving aside sumo wrestlers who are a special case, is there thus also an increasing tendency to overweight among the Japanese, especially among blue collar men?

 
PDR
615864.  Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:14 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Thanks PDR and exnihilo. So ultimately, it's just another manifestation of the Japanese desire to mimic the USA.


I'm not sure, and I haven't studied the subject in enough detail to really have a worthwhile opinion of my own, but I think Ellen's work was leaning towards a conlusion that it was a form of latent (or nascent) imperialism - expressing dominant and abusive control over your national rival's women. I think she was drawing parallels to the Serbian rape-camps for Croatian/Bosnian women (and similar institutions in Rwanda and Sierra Leone).

PDR

 

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