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611686.  Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:32 am Reply with quote

At least five points for that I'd say djg.

Ion Zone
611913.  Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:36 pm Reply with quote

Rudolph Hucker wrote:
Ion Zone wrote:
It would be a very, very, big mistake to stop her running nowadays, the transgender community with roll over them like a tank.

Clearly you are writing in a language which is closely related to English, is there a key that will unlock the meaning of the words you put together?

In all probability the transgender community will be pissed, and the rest of the gay\bisexual community will be behind them.

611949.  Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:15 pm Reply with quote

Will we?

611955.  Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:25 pm Reply with quote

Apparently we will. First I've heard of it though, is there a memo going round that missed me?

611964.  Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:31 pm Reply with quote

It'll be in our junk mail folders.

Barry McStay
612010.  Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:25 pm Reply with quote

Hermaphrodite comes from Hermaphroditus, the offspring of Hermes and Aphrodite. Born a boy, he was raised by nymphs on Mt. Ida in Turkey. (As an aside, this Mt. Ida was also the site of the rape of Ganymede and where the Trojans sheltered after the fall of Troy. They would make their ships from the pines thereon and, when Turnus attacked the ships - in Book IX of The Aeneid - Jupiter turned them into nymphs and they swam to safety).
The nymph Salmacis adored Hermaphroditus. She attached herself to him while he was bathing in a pool one day and begged the gods to let them never be parted. This was granted and they merged into an androgynous being.
Hermaphroditus is represented in the Fellini film "Satyricon" - for which Fellini was nominated for an Academy Award. Swinburne also wrote a poem entitled "Hermaphroditus" inspired by the statue of Hermaphroditus in the Louvre. This example was discovered in the Santa Maria della Vittoria (probably when it was being renovated in 1612) and given to the Cardinal Borghese. His descendents sold it to the Louvre in 1807 where it remains to this day.
Typically, there are simultaneous hermaphrodites, and sequential hermaphrodites. Hermaphrodite is nowadays less favoured by the medical world who prefer the term "intersex". "Jurassic Park" featured dinosaurs as "sequential hermaphrodites" - being born female but later being created male.

Ion Zone
612366.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:40 pm Reply with quote

I would have thought you would be. She doesn't fit the dictionary definition, but she is trans-gendered.

612379.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:32 pm Reply with quote

So? Are we one great lumbering beast with a single mind just awaiting the next opportunity for outrage at the treatment of "one of us"?

Ion Zone
612394.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:55 pm Reply with quote

Um...No? You do seem quite angry though....

I would have thought it would be a pressing concern if someone got banned from the Olympics for being transgendered, it doesn't strike me as particularly fair.

In all probability, though, they will probably just put her on the mens team.

Last edited by Ion Zone on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

612397.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:00 pm Reply with quote

I'm not angry at all, just responding to the sweeping generalisation.

I really don't see that the issue of whether or not an inter-sex person can compete in athletics is specifically an LGB (or T) issue. It is an issue the governing body will need to address, of course.

612399.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:04 pm Reply with quote

No, it isn't - and I think it's unfortunate that some commentators are seeking to make it one. It's equally unfortunate that some in South Africa are trying to claim that it's because she is black.

Incidentally, is there any prospect of her being banned from track and field altogether? I don't say it's ideal, but wouldn't she still be allowed to compete in men's events even if the IAAF decided that she cannot compete as a woman?

Ion Zone
612400.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm Reply with quote

I would have thought it was, from my experience the T covers this, but there you go. Though it is still, in my opinion, discrimination to prevent her running, as they did the last time this happened.

Last edited by Ion Zone on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

612401.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm Reply with quote

Indeed, banning someone from the Olympics for being transgendered is something that concerns me. But I'd like to think it concerns me because I'm an individual, who has thought about the issues, not just because I'm gay, or even "part of the gay community".

It's somewhat insulting to suggest that gay/bi people are simply a mass that are all identical and so are all automatically concerned with the same things, rather than capable of independent thought.

Edit: I see whilst I was composing my reply others commented. For it to make sense, it should be read as a response to Ion Zone's post 612394.

612402.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:14 pm Reply with quote

I'd much rather talk in terms of human rights than rights for any one subgroup, but my understanding (and I'm no biologist) is that intersex is different from transgender and not covered in the general scope of LGBT matters (certainly it has been so treated legally) as the former stems from an inability to physically determine gender while the latter is an internal question of gender identity being disparate from the physical gender. That said, a solution must be found, and I don't pretend to know what that solution is.

Ion Zone
612404.  Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:21 pm Reply with quote

It's somewhat insulting to suggest that gay/bi people are simply a mass that are all identical and so are all automatically concerned with the same things, rather than capable of independent thought.

Where did I say that?

Of course you are all individuals, but that doesn't mean you can't object just because you would have to do it en mass, if you don't defend hermaphrodites, now is a good time to start.

Anyway, human rights, LGBT rights, it's all the same to me, you lot are the ones who love categories, I'm just trying to talk in the same language. If it was because she was female, there would be a whole named percentage of society ready to defend her there.

Last edited by Ion Zone on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total


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