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Sadurian Mike
527233.  Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:30 pm Reply with quote

grabagrannie wrote:
Suze, say it out loud, "It is I who is wrong" - Doesn´t that offend your ears?

That sounds perfectly good to me.

"It is I who is to blame."
"It is I who is the culprit."
"It is I who is driving."
"So, Supercow, it is you who is the Phantom Udder Flasher!"

I emphasised the "I" in each case because using that sort of phraseology really needs the drama. Twirling your moustaches and wearing a large black top hat are optional but recommended.

Normally, of course, I would use "I am wrong".

 
suze
527241.  Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:39 pm Reply with quote

Normally, of course, I would use "I am right"...

(Woman's prerogative, y'see ...)

 
Sadurian Mike
527246.  Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:47 pm Reply with quote

Ah well, I know my place.

 
bobwilson
527310.  Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:15 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Normally, of course, I would use "I am right"...

(Woman's prerogative, y'see ...)


Although this would definitely mean that you woz wrong (Man's superiority doncha know).

 
slightly odd
528981.  Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:18 pm Reply with quote

Reading this just makes me imagine saying everything (I would say the words out loud but there are lots of people around) and now I can't remember what I would usually say or what sounds right, although that could just be because it is 3 O'clock in the morning.

 
bobwilson
528984.  Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:22 pm Reply with quote

That's worrying. A person who at 3 AM is both using the internet for casual use and is afraid of what the people around him/her may think. Can't be at work (casual use) - can't be at home (wouldn't care what anyone thought at 3 AM).

 
grabagrannie
529026.  Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:54 am Reply with quote

What nationality are you, Sadurian Mike? All your examples are "wrong" by the standards of English I learned at school 40 to 50 years ago.
The following is not the best example, since the verb "to have" only has two forms in the present (simple) tense, namely "have" and "has", but we have had this song title quoted above: "I (Who Have Nothing)". It would be "I (Who Has Nothing)" if the third person were used, as you have done in your four examples. It would be "You (Who Have Nothing)," and, "He (Who Has Nothing)," if somebody wanted to write some more songs for Dame Shirley.
What about, "They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old." This shows that the verb in the subordinate clause has to agree (in number, at least) with the subject of the main clause. [Not in all cases, of course, but in the sort of case that we are talking about.] It would sound terrible to say, "They shall grow not old, as we that is left grow old." I submit that the verb in the subordinate clause also agrees with the person in the main clause, although you cannot tell in that example, because all persons plural of the verb "to be" take "are".
Yes, again, language is a tool, we all would understand "I (Who Has Nothing)". But we'll end up speaking our own gibberish that nobody else will understand if we take this too far. Take the double negative, for instance, "I ain't never done that." We know what it means (I didn't do that). But if I said, "You cannot not go to the dance," I would mean, "You have to go to the dance." Somebody who habitually uses double negatives might misunderstand me.

 
slightly odd
529872.  Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:55 am Reply with quote

To explain why I was on the internet at 3AM and cared what people thought, my school Jazz band was doing a sponsored 24-hour playathon and, while I wasn't playing, I spent a lot of the night on the computer and so did other people.

 
bobwilson
529896.  Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:38 am Reply with quote

slightly odd wrote:
To explain why I was on the internet at 3AM and cared what people thought, my school Jazz band was doing a sponsored 24-hour playathon and, while I wasn't playing, I spent a lot of the night on the computer and so did other people.


It was much more interesting before you explained ;)

 
Sadurian Mike
529977.  Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:57 pm Reply with quote

grabagrannie wrote:
What nationality are you, Sadurian Mike? All your examples are "wrong" by the standards of English I learned at school 40 to 50 years ago.

I'm English and I learned my English language about thirty years ago.

 
'yorz
549539.  Thu May 07, 2009 9:37 am Reply with quote

Is 'English' a nationality?

And I was taught at school (a Dutch one, but what the heck) that it's 'to learn-learnt-learnt; to dream-dreamt-dreamt.
The only instance where I was allowed to use 'learned' was 'My learned friend'. 'Dreamed' never entered the equation.
Was my teacher off her rocker?



It's I, LeClerc!

 
suze
549547.  Thu May 07, 2009 10:33 am Reply with quote

The answer to the first question that you'd be taught in school in England is "no"; pupils are taught that their nationality is British, and the Home Office states that "The current law does not recognise 'English' as a description of nationality".

Even so, an awful lot of people in Scotland state their nationality as Scottish - much as strictly speaking, it's wrong.


A lawyer is always "learned", never "learnt".

But in the more common use as a past participle, "learnt" is the usual form in Britain. North Americans tend to use "learned" rather more, but neither form should be considered "wrong". It's the same with a handful of other past participles - those of dream, spell, lean, and so on.

 
TwistedByKnaves
549822.  Thu May 07, 2009 5:00 pm Reply with quote

... although England, Scotland and Wales are all nations, though not states. Damned confusing for Johnny Foreigner.

Though no doubt he has his own equally bizarre arrangements to counter confuse us with.

If we cared.

 
bemahan
549826.  Thu May 07, 2009 5:02 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
... although England, Scotland and Wales are all nations, though not states. Damned confusing for Johnny Foreigner.
And for my seven year old!

 
Posital
549827.  Thu May 07, 2009 5:03 pm Reply with quote

eeyoresmum wrote:
It's I, LeClerc!

Phew - I'm not the only one then.

 

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