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bobwilson
440228.  Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:32 pm Reply with quote

No particular reason for posting this topic other than to put this woman's name on a more regular footing.

 
QiScorpion
440329.  Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:45 am Reply with quote

who is Shoesmith then?

 
Davini994
440357.  Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:00 am Reply with quote

"Shoesmith on a regular footing" Bob? Dear oh dear:)

 
bobwilson
440572.  Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:04 pm Reply with quote

that was purely accidental davini

Shoesmith is the moron in charge in the Baby P case. Apparently, she's held in high regard by many people in the area.

Shoesmith is the woman who issued an apology for failings after two days of intense media scrutiny - following 14 months of non-media scrutiny in which she hadn't issued an apology. Shoesmith is the woman who managed to oversee a service which allowed a baby to be murdered in intensely painful circumstances.

Like many situations - the name of the innocent victim is rememnbered whilst the name of the guilty

 
samivel
440573.  Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:06 pm Reply with quote

Bedtime again.

 
djgordy
440612.  Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:26 am Reply with quote

Interestingly, Shoesmith as a name derives form the occupation of someone who makes and fits horseshoes. Another name with the same meaning often used as a surname is Farrier, though this is quite rare being the 4,490th most common surname in the country.

http://surname.sofeminine.co.uk/w/surnames/surname-farrier.html

Shoesmith doesn't even register on that site.

Of the names for people who make shoes for human, one well know is Cordwainer, although this usually applied to someone who worked in fine leather rather than a common boot maker. Cordwain was a high quality leather from Cordoba. A cordwainer would also make other items as well as shoes from the leather though.

"Cobbler" is used as a surname but it seems quite rare. There appears to be some dispute as to whether a cobbler actually made shoes or just repaired them.

 
Celebaelin
440696.  Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:28 am Reply with quote

Quote:
(Marcullus:) You, sir, what trade are you?
(Cobbler:) Truly, sir, in respect of a fine workman I am but, as you would say, a cobbler.
(Marcullus:) But what trade art thou? Answer me directly.
(Cobbler:) A trade, sir, that I hope I may use with a safe conscience, which is indeed, sir, a mender of bad soles.

Julius Caesar
(Marcullus & Cobbler at I, i)

 
Sailor Charon
440701.  Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:13 am Reply with quote

djgordy wrote:


"Cobbler" is used as a surname but it seems quite rare. There appears to be some dispute as to whether a cobbler actually made shoes or just repaired them.


I remember it well from... argh was it Yes Minister or Yes Prime Minister...
Anyway it was the (alleged) civil service acronym CGSM. Consignment of Geriatric Shoe Manufacturers... (Load of old cobblers)

 
MinervaMoon
440794.  Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:42 pm Reply with quote

djgordy wrote:
Of the names for people who make shoes for human

My father's side of the family used to be S(h)apozhniks (or some such) -- Russian for "shoemaker". It was changed to something like Velikovich to avoid conscription into the Russian army, although I'm not sure what the deal was there. Then it was simplified at Ellis Island by someone who couldn't be bothered with all the letters.

 
Flash
440801.  Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:08 pm Reply with quote

MinervaMoon wrote:
Then it was simplified at Ellis Island by someone who couldn't be bothered with all the letters.

Interesting, Sarah - on the show we asserted that this kind of thing didn't really happen, and that the records of immigrants' names as recorded at entry points such as Ellis Island were actually very meticulous. Are you pointing us at the need for yet another retraction?

 
suze
440804.  Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:15 pm Reply with quote

Сапожник in Russian, so Sapozhnik seems very reasonable.

Now then, the question which Flash raises. Just like Minerva, I'm a North American with Slavic roots on my father's side, and my understanding is that the show was right here.

Much as there are very many families in North America who believe that their Slavic names (especially) were Americanized at Ellis Island, all researchers who have investigated the matter conclude that it didn't happen like that.

What did happen is that as immigrants went about their lives in the New World, some found that their names were rarely spelled correctly and decided it was easier to spell their names as others did. Others consciously decided to adopt less "foreign sounding" names - and that may perhaps be what an ancestor of Minerva's did.

My family did the former, in three separate ways. My maiden surname should end -ski in the masculine in Polish, but my father always spelled it -sky since Canadians seemed to find it easier. What's more, my mother, my sister, and I never used -ska as the feminine form of the name, as would be done in Poland. My father also dropped an ogonek (the diacritic in ę) both in spelling and in pronunciation; his father apparently dropped it in spelling but not in pronunciation.

More on this matter - based on a piece which Mat wrote for the Financial Times - at post 163020.

 
MinervaMoon
440820.  Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:41 pm Reply with quote

Flash wrote:
MinervaMoon wrote:
Then it was simplified at Ellis Island by someone who couldn't be bothered with all the letters.

Interesting, Sarah - on the show we asserted that this kind of thing didn't really happen, and that the records of immigrants' names as recorded at entry points such as Ellis Island were actually very meticulous. Are you pointing us at the need for yet another retraction?

I had an inkling that that was the case; I should have said that all this comes from my grandmother, who's connected to that lineage by (ex-)marriage, and isn't certain about the finer details. I'd defer to the published research, then, and say that it is more likely that it was shortened by choice, rather than by an immigration worker. My grandmother told me very recently that she could inquire about my grandfather's records if I was interested, so that is certainly something I'd like to look into.

 
costean
441161.  Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:19 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
based on a piece which Mat wrote for the Financial Times

Hem, hem ... Fortean?

 
suze
441170.  Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:29 pm Reply with quote

D'oh, I really am asleep lately! Yes, of course.

Mat, apologies for connecting you with that pink rag...

 
Sailor Charon
441178.  Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:34 pm Reply with quote

Doesn't Schumacher translate as something like cobbler? I can't remember where I heard that, so I don't know how reliable a source it was.

 

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