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Gurkhas

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soup
418641.  Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:04 pm Reply with quote

reddygirl wrote:
soup wrote:

As an aside brother worked (and socialised; and ate goat curry but that is another story) a lot with the Gurkhas (they were often used as "red forces" on exercises) when he was at Sandhurst. He was "adopted" by them so that when he had a little girl they presented him with a little Kukri on a bracelet for her


That is terribly cool! Does she still have it?


No idea but would imagine so, shall ask brother tomorrow (well when I next speak to him)

 
Arcane
418699.  Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:37 pm Reply with quote

I would imagine it would be the sort of thing that no one else you knew had!

 
Alfred E Neuman
418715.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:16 am Reply with quote

gruff5 wrote:
A military knife is carried with violent intent. Yoof knives are carried with violent intent. I would have thought the connection is fairly obvious?


I spent two years in the army doing national service. I carried a rifle everyday for those two years. I was very well trained in how to use it, and could probably disassemble and reassemble it blindfolded even today, 25 years later. I shot many hundereds of rounds while in the army, quite possibly running into the thousands.

Since leaving the army, I have never owned a gun of any description. I have fired at most twenty rounds since then with friends' weapons in that time, and never at anything that was more alive that a piece of paper.

So I don't see that there is any connection whatsoever, let alone an obvious one.

 
Eric the Underwriter
418770.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:20 am Reply with quote

So taking the "yoof" and "armed forces" concept further by Guff5 thinking........the Army Cadet force must be the meanest yoofs on the block!

Under 18, trained to use a rifle, wear combats...........

On an aside I was a member and have noting but good to say for the ACF. See how "'ard" some yoofs would be freezing knackers off on the side of a cold dark mountain.

 
gruff5
418963.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:26 am Reply with quote

If the ACF is not an apprenticeship for the army, then what is its purpose? If you're keen on the army, then presumably you'd be willing to go off to Afghanistan and use your rifle to try and kill people (or their wives & children as collateral damage) who your commanding officer told you were the enemy, the "taliban". Or substitute Iraq/Al Quaida or whatever other pointless war since WWII our lads (or Ghurka mercenaries) have been sent into by their political masters. Then come home with mental scars & good chance of going into a life of crime & violence.

Do you not see this as stupid? Not just a little bit?

 
Davini994
418976.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:44 am Reply with quote

Gruff5 wrote:
Then come home with mental scars & good chance of going into a life of crime & violence.

I'd be interested to see stats on that - although do doubt the stats are necessarily skewed by the demographics of the army intake.

 
soup
418978.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:46 am Reply with quote

gruff5 wrote:
If the ACF is not an apprenticeship for the army, then what is its purpose?


Shall I bother with all the instil teamwork values, instil discipline, teach one to live of the land or will you just argue black is white that all soldiers are murderous swine? BTW your homework for the weekend, 'what % of the army actually "fights"' (not Heinlein's utopia of 100% but real life numbers)?

Oh and as an aside I was in the ATC for four years attaing the rank of sergeant but I didn't join the RAF so in your eyes did I "waste" an apprenticeship.

 
Izzardesque
419013.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:16 pm Reply with quote

gruff5 wrote:
A military knife is carried with violent intent. Yoof knives are carried with violent intent. I would have thought the connection is fairly obvious?


Actually, most of the time, a military knife is there as a tool. It's primary purpose may have violent in previous times but now it would only be a weapon of last resort.

The big fuck off guns on the other hand...

 
AlmondFacialBar
419023.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:37 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
The Mk I to Mk IV were around 13in to 14in long. The Mk V is obviously slightly smaller at just under the foot.

To be honest, I would say that the best way to identify the weapon is to look at the thickness of the blade and the stamping.

This article is where I got my information and photos from; it is about as thorough and informative a treatment of the subject as I have read online (or, indeed offline). The various marks and identifying patterns are explained, so you might be able to find out which model your dad has.

I am going to guess that it will be a Mk II or Mk V if he got it from British sources, or the Mk II or Mk III if he got it from Indian sources.


oh cripes... i'll be in germany in late november, will have to go up to the attic no and check. it can't be a mark V i think; it was already old-ish when i was born.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
Arcane
419147.  Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:50 pm Reply with quote

Izzardesque wrote:

The big fuck off guns on the other hand...


That being the technical name for them.

 
Sadurian Mike
419217.  Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:57 am Reply with quote

gruff5 wrote:
If the ACF is not an apprenticeship for the army, then what is its purpose? If you're keen on the army, then presumably you'd be willing to go off to Afghanistan and use your rifle to try and kill people....

<snip>

Do you not see this as stupid? Not just a little bit?

Your argument attempting to link the Army and youth knife crime has so many holes and flaws that I can only admire your willingness to try to defend it.

A few more glaring issues, though:

1. Youth knife crime is mainly seen in teenagers too young for the Army and who have never had any sort of military training.
2. Combat knife-use is very much minority Army training. I would be more convinced if you could link gun crime with military training.
3. The first thing that the military teaches is discipline, both self-discipline and the discipline of respect for authority and others. These are fundamentally missing from the teenage knife criminals.

That all said, this is certainly not the place to argue the point. If you care to open a new thread in a more appropriate setting then I'll happily argue it with you, and I dare say that others will too.

 
Eric the Underwriter
419218.  Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:58 am Reply with quote

reddygirl wrote:
Izzardesque wrote:

The big fuck off guns on the other hand...


That being the technical name for them.


By the RA yes. Personal weapons are called "pea shooters". Yes armed forces humour is black.

Guff I have no reason to say the rights and wrong of being in stan and Iraq. If you belive the west is there just to shoot women and children you need to look at your sources and what propagander is being sprouted.
Noting to say of combat engineers helping with infrastructure, humanity aid via the Royal Navy to disaster zones etc. It is not just "here is a gun, kill someone"

If the ACF is not an apprenticeship for the army, then what is its purpose?

I will obtain the "mission statement" as I belive it is called today. From a personal point of view. I come from a very rough area. I rose to the top of the cadet tree as such. This pushed me to go forward obtain a degree and now work in a nice office job. Possibly I could now be in prison on diffrent crimes.

YOU decide on the good it can do. It has been around for 200 years.
You may hold pacifist beliefs, i have no problem with that. War is very very terrible thing. However if it was not for "Tommy" you would not have the power to hold the views.

 
Sadurian Mike
419219.  Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:59 am Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
oh cripes... i'll be in germany in late november, will have to go up to the attic no and check. it can't be a mark V i think; it was already old-ish when i was born.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

Any idea where it originally came from? Was it taken from a battlefield, bought at market, bought new or whatever?

My ex-'s dad had the remains of a Japanese sword brought back from Burma where he served in the RAF regiment. It was a rusty and sorry-looking object when I saw it, and only had about six inches of blade left (he apparently used it to chop firewood!)

I feel better about it by convincing myself that it was only one of the relatively cheap "Shin-gunto" factory-made swords as opposed to a markedly more valuable hand-made heirloom weapon.

 
Izzardesque
419232.  Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:07 am Reply with quote

My grandfather packed all his war stuff into a big metal box and threw it off the end of the pier, never to mention the war again.

 
Starfish13
419236.  Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:16 am Reply with quote

soup wrote:
gruff5 wrote:
If the ACF is not an apprenticeship for the army, then what is its purpose?


Shall I bother with all the instil teamwork values, instil discipline, teach one to live of the land or will you just argue black is white that all soldiers are murderous swine? BTW your homework for the weekend, 'what % of the army actually "fights"' (not Heinlein's utopia of 100% but real life numbers)?

Oh and as an aside I was in the ATC for four years attaing the rank of sergeant but I didn't join the RAF so in your eyes did I "waste" an apprenticeship.


The ACF is as much an apprenticeship for the Army as the Scouts or Guides, Boys Brigade or Woodcraft Folk are. Cadet forces from all three branches of the military, and also the UOTC, UAS and URNU, offer young people the opportunity to try a huge range of activities, learn skills and develop as confident, well rounded people, able to work in a team and lead by example. They are not simply churning out battle-ready recruits for the military.

Without joining such organisations I would not have achieved some of the experiences I had as a teenager and young adult, such as: learning to fly a glider; learning how to map read and navigate confidently; kayaking; completing bronze and sliver DofE awards; hillwalking; cross-country skiing; shooting; representing my organisation at sport; camping; gaining a rank that gave me responsibility; team work; summer ML qualification; learning survival and bushcraft skills; being disciplined for my actions; learning how to instruct map reading; developing leadership skills; real hard work; passing on some of my skills nd knowledge to young people; travel to France, Germany, Gibraltar, Morocco and Malawi; doing something worthwhile for others people; visiting WWI war graves and memorials; gaining a qualification in skiing instruction; organising social events; holding a position on a comittee; having the confidence to set up my own expedition; getting cold, muddy, bored and thoroughly fed up; having an awesome time; making life-long friends.

Not all of the experiences were good, some of them were some of the most outstanding things I've done in my life, but all of them shaped me and who I am today. But there is not a chance I would have joined the Army at the end of it all.

 

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