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C Series DVD?

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suze
411300.  Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:41 am Reply with quote

You are right of course Milvus, and I'm fairly sure the same error has been pointed out before.

Mandarin Chinese in fact has no fewer than four consonant sounds which English speaking ears might identify as "ch". None is actually identical to the sound spelled thus in English (IPA /tʃ/) but all sound fairly similar to the untrained ear. They are the sounds spelled in Pinyin as zh (/ʈʂ/), ch (/ʈʂʰ/), j (/tɕ/) and q (/tɕʰ/).

As for why it wasn't corrected, well Rory was speaking from his own knowledge (erroneous as it was) there, and the production team doesn't know in advance what a guest is going to say. Pretty much every fact given by Stephen has been researched by the elves and hence you can absolutely blame us if he's wrong - but if a guest gets something wrong then that's down to him or her!

Well spotted, all the same!

 
DJ One Record
412087.  Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:19 pm Reply with quote

There was a retraction about that section on the DVD, but it was more to do with the western bias regardng how Cherokee should be pronounced. A valuable and interesting retraction though nonetheless.

 
suze
412125.  Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:40 pm Reply with quote

Ooh, I don't have the C series DVD yet - clearly this is something I must rectify. What does it say about Cherokee?

 
nitwit02
412153.  Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:39 pm Reply with quote

Written by Ray Noble, recorded by Charlie Barnet Orch.

 
Flash
412423.  Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:03 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
What does it say about Cherokee?

We probably said whatever you told us to say, suze - tho' I can't remember what that was off the cuff.

 
Milvus
412741.  Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:04 am Reply with quote

Hi Suze, thanks for responding to my post regarding the C Series, and Chinese in particular. Sorry if I sounded a bit grumpy - I'd just returned from a full afternoon of invasive tests at the pain clinic, so it probably wasn't the best time for me to post.

The 'ch' sound in Chinese (as in 'chang' - 'long', or 'chao' - 'to fry') is actually very similar to the 'ch' sound in English. The other sounds you mentioned that could be mistaken as 'ch' are all quite different: the 'zh' sounds like 'j' (as in 'joke'), the 'j' is basically the same, but forms words by combining with different vowel sounds (you'll often see 'zh' followed by 'a' and 'u' sounds, or combinations thereof, such as 'ao', 'ua', etc.); for example, 'zhuang' ('to collide with, or hit'), but you wouldn't find the 'j' followed directly by those vowel combinations (you won't find 'juang' in the dictionary, for example). The 'j' sound is most often followed by the 'i' vowel, or combinations such as 'ie' ('jie' - 'clean'), 'ia' ('jia' - 'home'), 'ing ('jing' - 'quiet'), and so forth. The 'q' sound is like combining a 'ch' with a 'y': 'qiang' ('wall') is pronounced something like 'chyang', for example.

A lot of the confusion actually stems from the pinyin system of romanisation, adopted by Mainland China in the fifties. The Yale system, widely used in the US prior to the nineties, was far more accurate (in terms of presenting equivalent sounds), and a lot easier for non-native speakers to master. Once one has memorised and become accustomed to the pinyin system, it is actually very easy to use, but for newcomers to the language, or (say) foreign tourists trying to read street signs, it has been (and remains) the cause of much frustration, with its 'q' and 'x' sounds, and other oddities that don't readily correspond to sounds found in English.

Sorry if I've just made this all seem even more convoluted. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents - or pence, or renminbi, or what have you - as a Chinese speaker.

 
suze
412894.  Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:35 am Reply with quote

Thanks Milvus, I shall add some of that to my notes. (For more than twenty years, I've been keeping several big fat folders full of notes on all sorts of language related matters - they often come in useful.)

I've sometimes wondered why the inventors of pinyin used both <j> and <zh>, when they are no more than allophones. From a phonetic point of view it's useful, but it makes the system more difficult to learn than it needs to be. (There are other such pairs in the pinyin "alphabet" as well.)

But ultimately, the system was designed by the Chinese for the Chinese, so it's entirely up to them. There's no real reason why letters should be used with the same sound values they have in English - much as it might have made some things easier if they were. But, for instance, Hungarian uses <s> for the sound /ʃ/ (English "sh") and <sz> for the sound /s/. And no one in Hungary believes that the two should be swapped because English speakers would find the other way around easier to understand.

In some ways the Yale Romanization system is easier for English people to understand; I suspect it was at least partly because that system was devised by Americans that it wasn't adopted as the Chinese standard. It's still used for Cantonese to some extent.

And then there's the Wade-Giles system, which is rather considered unworkable these days because of the need for loads of apostrophes - they were often left out in printed material, despite being crucial. (That is to say, ch and ch' represent different sounds, for instance.)

 
Purupuss
778952.  Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:12 pm Reply with quote

Hi this is my first time on this web site, having only been introduced to Qi when New Zealand television started playing series F last year. I've since bought the three available DVDs and I'm eagerly waiting on someone to release series D and E.

We've just finished watching the DVD of series C and I see in the "chat" section of the extras that one of the photos had the names of six of the Mercury Seven on screen. As a long time Thunderbirds fan I immediately recognised five of those names. My excitement was compounded when the next photo was actually a publicity shot of some of the Thunderbirds Supermarionettes. But nowhere on the DVD was there any mention of the Mercury Seven or Thunderbirds. Can anyone tell me why that recording had those pictures and what the related question was?

Thanks in advance.

 
Flash
779140.  Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:18 am Reply with quote

Welcome, Purupuss. The question was:

Which is the odd one out? Alan Shepherd, Virgil Grissom, John Glenn, Scott Carpenter, Walter Schirra, Gordon Cooper.

with the answer that Walter Schirra is the only one of the first six Americans into space not to have a character in “Thunderbirds” named after him.

... but it got cut and was never broadcast.

 
suze
779160.  Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:59 am Reply with quote

The CSI character Gil Grissom is named after the spaceman, but only partially.

The surname is indeed after Virgil "Gus" Grissom, of whom William Petersen was a fan.

But "Gil" is not short for Virgil - it's short for Gilbert. The character was originally to be called Gilbert Sheinbaum, but once an actor had been hired to play him they decided that William Petersen didn't really look Jewish enough to bear that name. (And the show has revealed that Grissom is, in fact, a lapsed Roman Catholic.) So a new surname was needed, and Mr Petersen got to choose it.

 
Purupuss
779362.  Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:45 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The CSI The character was originally to be called Gilbert Sheinbaum, but once an actor had been hired to play him they decided that William Petersen didn't really look Jewish enough to bear that name. (And the show has revealed that Grissom is, in fact, a lapsed Roman Catholic.) So a new surname was needed, and Mr Petersen got to choose it.


Thanks for that. Gil Grissom is my favourite character in CSI and I've never quite been able to work out if it's because of William Petersen's work, or because my favourite character in Thunderbirds is Virgil.

Thanks also for giving me such a quick answer to my question. It was indeed Quite Interesting.

I don't suppose you know if anyone got the answer right?

FAB
:-) Purupuss

 
suze
784247.  Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:58 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The CSI character Gil Grissom is named after the spaceman, but only partially.


But how did Horatio Caine - Grissom's counterpart in Miami - get his name?

I learned from Mastermind this evening that there was a character in The Avengers called Horatio Kane. Are they by any chance related?

 
'yorz
787354.  Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:19 pm Reply with quote

Apparently, Horatio Caine was named by his parents after the author Horatio Alger .

 

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