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Fire & Freezing: Firemen's Poles

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eggshaped
327904.  Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:10 am Reply with quote

Duely erased Mat.

 
suze
327926.  Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:44 am Reply with quote

eggshaped wrote:
Władysław Kozakiewicz and Tadeusz Ślusarski


Purely because I'm the sort of inconsiderate sod who shouts at her TV when people pronounce "Wałęsa" incorrectly ...

Lots and lots of points for pronouncing those as (approximately) "vwa-DI-swahf ko-zak-YEH-vich" and "Ta-DAY-ush Shloo-SAR-skee"!

 
MatC
328336.  Thu May 01, 2008 5:05 am Reply with quote

When we’re touching on “Health and safety gone mad,” it might be worth having this in the notes:

There were 255 workplace deaths in Britain in 2007.


Around 250 people per year die in the UK “as a result of their work,” according to figures collected by the HSE. 20,000 - 50,000 deaths are caused by “work-related ill health.”

Britain’s most deadly industry is construction; 69 deaths at work in 2007.

Only “around 30%” of companies involved in killing a worker are convicted of an offence.

Every year, “Workers Memorial Day” is marked by the trades unions; this year it fell on 28 April, with the slogan “Remember the dead, Fight for the living.” Unions are campaigning for the Day to be officially recognised as a national day of remembrance.

S: Morning Star, 28 Apr 08; 29 Apr 08.

 
Flash
328346.  Thu May 01, 2008 5:25 am Reply with quote

Although this:
Quote:
Only “around 30%” of companies involved in killing a worker

seems to me to beg a number of questions, rather like when you hear statistics that say how few date-rapists are convicted; I always think: if they haven't been convicted, who says they're rapists?

 
MatC
328355.  Thu May 01, 2008 5:59 am Reply with quote

True, of course, Flash - but in this particular context, it does provide evidence against “Health and safety gone mad”: if we really were living in a country where every human action was encircled by vast amounts of HSE legislation, then it is reasonable to suppose that when the ultimate H&S event - a death on the job - occurred, there would be a higher proportion of prosecutions and thus convictions.

 
pmailkeey
1212500.  Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:48 pm Reply with quote

The HSE ignore most deaths in the workplace. That's because they happen in care homes and hospitals and such. They're not even interested in suicides in the workplace.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1212529.  Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:47 am Reply with quote

I started to reply.

But then, seeing who the poster is, I realised that I really don't have the patience to deal with the puerile arguments that will be raised in defense of that post, not to mention the total absence of any facts to back it up.

 
PDR
1212535.  Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:28 am Reply with quote

I believe this thread is a leak from the inner Elven Registry in Rivendell. My theory is that Julian Assange has run out of other bollox and is having to resort to documents stolen from the Elves to further distract attention from his rapist tendencies.

We should not comment on leaked documents as a matter of policy, but I suspect the time for useful comment on Series F questions is rather long past.

PDR

 
pmailkeey
1212648.  Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:02 pm Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
I started to reply.

But then, seeing who the poster is, I realised that I really don't have the patience to deal with the puerile arguments that will be raised in defense of that post, not to mention the total absence of any facts to back it up.


Sorry, I hadn't realised I needed to support the bloody obvious with anything on a forum of what I thought were intelligent people.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1212687.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:48 am Reply with quote

pmailkeey wrote:
Alfred E Neuman wrote:
I started to reply.

But then, seeing who the poster is, I realised that I really don't have the patience to deal with the puerile arguments that will be raised in defense of that post, not to mention the total absence of any facts to back it up.


Sorry, I hadn't realised I needed to support the bloody obvious with anything on a forum of what I thought were intelligent people.


Well, not everyone who gets in here is intelligent, but those of us who are prefer that you substantiate your claims with facts.

And for the record, a patient in an old age home dying isn't a death in the workplace - they're not employed there. A nurse dying in an old age home is somewhat less common. The actual facts (should you care to look at them) are that farming and construction are the worst performers in HSE in the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-uk-a6733001.html

Oh, and someone committing suicide at work, unless it's caused by their work is not a HSE thing, its a mental health issue.

Having refuted your unsupported drivel, I'm not engaging with you any further - I know enough about your style of debate to know that you start from a low base and work down from there, and I'm not interested in joining you.

 
bemahan
1212691.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:17 am Reply with quote

eggshaped wrote:
Picture ideas
Someone going down a fireman's pole.


Am I too late to volunteer?

 
pmailkeey
1212717.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:12 am Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Well, not everyone who gets in here is intelligent, but those of us who are prefer that you substantiate your claims with facts.


Well I disagree when it comes to what ought to be common knowledge.

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
And for the record, a patient in an old age home dying isn't a death in the workplace - they're not employed there.


A person doesn't have to be employed there - premises operators in the UK have a duty of care of even trespassers.

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Oh, and someone committing suicide at work, unless it's caused by their work is not a HSE thing, its a mental health issue.


So at least you agree that it is an 'HSE thing' where the trigger is connected with the place !

Alfred E Neuman wrote:


Having refuted your unsupported drivel, I'm not engaging with you any further - I know enough about your style of debate to know that you start from a low base and work down from there, and I'm not interested in joining you.


Maybe you shouldn't post anything at all if all your intention is to insult other users on the forum.

 
'yorz
1212728.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:40 am Reply with quote

The way I see it:

HSE relates to occupational risks , ergo is for the employees.
Protecting for instance the interests of people whose rights have been restricted falls under the Mental Health Act, supervised by the Quality Care Commission.
These are clearly separated.

 
PDR
1212737.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:39 am Reply with quote

pmailkeey wrote:
Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Well, not everyone who gets in here is intelligent, but those of us who are prefer that you substantiate your claims with facts.


Well I disagree when it comes to what ought to be common knowledge.


In my experience the problem with "common knowledge" is that it's rarely either - a characteristic it shares with "common sense". If the knowledge is "coomon" they it should be easy to support the assertion with verifiable facts - contemnprary reports, peer-reviewed studies, survey data, academic research etc. So please do.

Quote:

A person doesn't have to be employed there - premises operators in the UK have a duty of care of even trespassers.


So they might, but that still doesn't make it their "worlkplace". I suppose you could construe that my house is the workplace of the scroat who comes into it to steal my stuff, but I'm afraid that I'm not going to get particularly interested in the HSE's failure to conduct investigations into the incidence of workplace injuries to burglars, rapists and murderers.

Quote:

So at least you agree that it is an 'HSE thing' where the trigger is connected with the place !


Suicides and self-harm incidents, along with death in working time due to natural causes, road traffic accidents and air/sea/rail accidents, explicitly excluded from the HSE's jurisdiction as a matter of law - these are investigated by other official bodies so if they investigated them it would be a misuse of taxpayer's money.

But to return to your original post:

pmailkeey wrote:
The HSE ignore most deaths in the workplace. That's because they happen in care homes and hospitals and such. They're not even interested in suicides in the workplace.


This is patently untrue. It only takes a few seconds for a competent person to find evidence like this report which refute your assertion. It's as obvious as the causes of fuselage torque-reaction in a helicopter.

PDR

 
pmailkeey
1212742.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:00 am Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
The way I see it:

HSE relates to occupational risks , ergo is for the employees.


No, that's not correct. For example the HSE examines fairground ride incidents not involving employees.

 

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