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Fire & Freezing: Firemen's Poles

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eggshaped
327900.  Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:51 am Reply with quote

Question. What is Quite Interesting about fireman’s poles?

Forfeit: health and safety gone mad

Answer. Despite tabloid claims to the contrary, firemen still use poles, and new stations are often built with poles. Health and Safety rules only dictate that ideally, new stations will be build on a single layer.


Notes:
Despite what you may have read in certain newspapers (*ahem* Daily Mail) firemen’s poles are not being banned by “Health and Safety gone mad”. Poles are still used throughout the UK if the fire station has them and if a new station is built on more than one level, they are often built with a pole. Ideally to remove any health and Safety issues in rushing to the fire engines, new fire stations are built entirely at ground level removing the need for both stairs and poles; however in inner-city areas they often do not have enough land to do so – so poles are still utilized. In 2006, it was reported that the new Greenbank Fire Station in Plymouth had been built without a pole. This much is true, but it was actually due to the fact that the design was changed part way through the build, by which time it was too late to install the poles.

There was no fire service of any sort before the Great Fire of London in 1666; it was put out by fire breaks created by Charles II’s army who blew up buildings. The great fire lead to the 1700 Parish Pump Act that forced Churches to buy manual pumps which they stored and were available for anyone to use in the Parish. In London from 1682 one could buy fire insurance: policy holders attached a metal plate to their building ensuring that if there were a fire their Insurance Company would fight to extinguish. It was an ill-organised system though with many competing companies. News of a fire would spread quickly and all the various companies would see their fire-fighters, who were mainly boat/dock workers, rush to their stations and then to the scene. No company knew if it was at one of their policy-holders’ buildings and so all companies would turn up and then leave once they worked out whose fire it was. If the building wasn’t insured the fire wasn’t tackled at all except if it threatened to spread to an insured building. Many of the UK’s prominent Insurance Companies started business as Fire Insurers, such as Royal Sun Alliance, then known as Sun.

In 1833 the top ten or so Insurers joined forces and formed the London Fire Engine Establishment. It ran all of the fire companies and so would send the nearest to the fire. This became a public service after the Tooley Street Fire of 1861 in the docks which lasted for two weeks and resulted in the death of James Braidwood, the first Chief Officer of the London Fire Engine Establishment.

While the Great Fire of London of 1666 only killed a handful of people, there was an earlier Great Fire, in 1212 that killed over 3000. In the 1980 Olympics the Gold and Silver medals for pole vaulting were both won by Poles (Wladyslaw Kozakiewicz and Tadeusz Slusarski respectively - "vwa-DI-swahf ko-zak-YEH-vich" and "Ta-DAY-ush Shloo-SAR-skee").

Picture Ideas:
Someone going down a fireman's pole.


Last edited by eggshaped on Thu May 01, 2008 3:58 am; edited 2 times in total

 
MatC
327903.  Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:08 am Reply with quote

Are you sure about the word "tabloid?" I suspect this myth has also appeared in broadsheets.

 
eggshaped
327904.  Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:10 am Reply with quote

Duely erased Mat.

 
suze
327926.  Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:44 am Reply with quote

eggshaped wrote:
Władysław Kozakiewicz and Tadeusz Ślusarski


Purely because I'm the sort of inconsiderate sod who shouts at her TV when people pronounce "Wałęsa" incorrectly ...

Lots and lots of points for pronouncing those as (approximately) "vwa-DI-swahf ko-zak-YEH-vich" and "Ta-DAY-ush Shloo-SAR-skee"!

 
MatC
328336.  Thu May 01, 2008 5:05 am Reply with quote

When we’re touching on “Health and safety gone mad,” it might be worth having this in the notes:

There were 255 workplace deaths in Britain in 2007.


Around 250 people per year die in the UK “as a result of their work,” according to figures collected by the HSE. 20,000 - 50,000 deaths are caused by “work-related ill health.”

Britain’s most deadly industry is construction; 69 deaths at work in 2007.

Only “around 30%” of companies involved in killing a worker are convicted of an offence.

Every year, “Workers Memorial Day” is marked by the trades unions; this year it fell on 28 April, with the slogan “Remember the dead, Fight for the living.” Unions are campaigning for the Day to be officially recognised as a national day of remembrance.

S: Morning Star, 28 Apr 08; 29 Apr 08.

 
Flash
328346.  Thu May 01, 2008 5:25 am Reply with quote

Although this:
Quote:
Only “around 30%” of companies involved in killing a worker

seems to me to beg a number of questions, rather like when you hear statistics that say how few date-rapists are convicted; I always think: if they haven't been convicted, who says they're rapists?

 
MatC
328355.  Thu May 01, 2008 5:59 am Reply with quote

True, of course, Flash - but in this particular context, it does provide evidence against “Health and safety gone mad”: if we really were living in a country where every human action was encircled by vast amounts of HSE legislation, then it is reasonable to suppose that when the ultimate H&S event - a death on the job - occurred, there would be a higher proportion of prosecutions and thus convictions.

 
pmailkeey
1212500.  Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:48 pm Reply with quote

The HSE ignore most deaths in the workplace. That's because they happen in care homes and hospitals and such. They're not even interested in suicides in the workplace.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1212529.  Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:47 am Reply with quote

I started to reply.

But then, seeing who the poster is, I realised that I really don't have the patience to deal with the puerile arguments that will be raised in defense of that post, not to mention the total absence of any facts to back it up.

 
PDR
1212535.  Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:28 am Reply with quote

I believe this thread is a leak from the inner Elven Registry in Rivendell. My theory is that Julian Assange has run out of other bollox and is having to resort to documents stolen from the Elves to further distract attention from his rapist tendencies.

We should not comment on leaked documents as a matter of policy, but I suspect the time for useful comment on Series F questions is rather long past.

PDR

 
pmailkeey
1212648.  Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:02 pm Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
I started to reply.

But then, seeing who the poster is, I realised that I really don't have the patience to deal with the puerile arguments that will be raised in defense of that post, not to mention the total absence of any facts to back it up.


Sorry, I hadn't realised I needed to support the bloody obvious with anything on a forum of what I thought were intelligent people.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1212687.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:48 am Reply with quote

pmailkeey wrote:
Alfred E Neuman wrote:
I started to reply.

But then, seeing who the poster is, I realised that I really don't have the patience to deal with the puerile arguments that will be raised in defense of that post, not to mention the total absence of any facts to back it up.


Sorry, I hadn't realised I needed to support the bloody obvious with anything on a forum of what I thought were intelligent people.


Well, not everyone who gets in here is intelligent, but those of us who are prefer that you substantiate your claims with facts.

And for the record, a patient in an old age home dying isn't a death in the workplace - they're not employed there. A nurse dying in an old age home is somewhat less common. The actual facts (should you care to look at them) are that farming and construction are the worst performers in HSE in the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-uk-a6733001.html

Oh, and someone committing suicide at work, unless it's caused by their work is not a HSE thing, its a mental health issue.

Having refuted your unsupported drivel, I'm not engaging with you any further - I know enough about your style of debate to know that you start from a low base and work down from there, and I'm not interested in joining you.

 
bemahan
1212691.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:17 am Reply with quote

eggshaped wrote:
Picture ideas
Someone going down a fireman's pole.


Am I too late to volunteer?

 
pmailkeey
1212717.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:12 am Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Well, not everyone who gets in here is intelligent, but those of us who are prefer that you substantiate your claims with facts.


Well I disagree when it comes to what ought to be common knowledge.

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
And for the record, a patient in an old age home dying isn't a death in the workplace - they're not employed there.


A person doesn't have to be employed there - premises operators in the UK have a duty of care of even trespassers.

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Oh, and someone committing suicide at work, unless it's caused by their work is not a HSE thing, its a mental health issue.


So at least you agree that it is an 'HSE thing' where the trigger is connected with the place !

Alfred E Neuman wrote:


Having refuted your unsupported drivel, I'm not engaging with you any further - I know enough about your style of debate to know that you start from a low base and work down from there, and I'm not interested in joining you.


Maybe you shouldn't post anything at all if all your intention is to insult other users on the forum.

 
'yorz
1212728.  Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:40 am Reply with quote

The way I see it:

HSE relates to occupational risks , ergo is for the employees.
Protecting for instance the interests of people whose rights have been restricted falls under the Mental Health Act, supervised by the Quality Care Commission.
These are clearly separated.

 

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