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Fashion - Haircuts

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319853.  Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:34 am Reply with quote

Oh, phooey.

319868.  Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:58 am Reply with quote

The immediate source is this passage from "Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness Of Crowds", Charles Mackay, 1841:
In France, the thunders of the Vatican with regard to long curly hair were hardly more respected than in England. Louis VII. however, was more obedient than his brother-king, and cropped himself as closely as a monk, to the great sorrow of all the gallants of his court. His Queen, the gay, haughty, and pleasure-seeking Eleanor of Guienne, never admired him in this trim, and continually reproached him with imitating, not only the headdress, but the asceticism of the monks. From this cause, a coldness arose between them. The lady proving at last unfaithful to her shaven and indifferent lord, they were divorced, and the Kings of France lost the rich provinces of Guienne and Poitou, which were her dowry. She soon after bestowed her hand and her possessions upon Henry Duke of Normandy, afterwards Henry II of England, and thus gave the English sovereigns that strong footing in France which was for so many centuries the cause of such long and bloody wars between the nations.

but of course Mackay is a secondary source at best so I don't claim much weight for him - he's really just an indicator that there may be a story out there.

But come on, the phrase "her shaven and indifferent lord" is worth the price of admission on its own.

319892.  Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:16 am Reply with quote

On the subject of Louis VII, Gerald of Wales has this:
That king Louis (VII, 1137-80) was once attacking a stronghold in Burgundy very dangerous for pilgrims and travellers, named Nonette. After the campaign had dragged on for nearly two months, he had to return to Orleans with so severe an illness that his life was almost despaired of. Doctors, both his own and from all over, came flooding in to investigate the causes of his sickness with all the subtlety at their command. At length all agreed that this inconvenience had happened to him because of his prolonged continence and the deprivation from sex ("defectu coitus"), for this was very early in his marriage to his (second) queen, Alice, from whom he later received king Philip and whom he loved greatly ("non mediocriter"). Once this had been explained to him in the presence of the city's bishop, and an assembly too of many abbots and priors and other religious personages and men bearing the monastic habit, the king at once responded: "Let us therefore send for the queen." But since she happened to be in far-away parts and the disease proved persistent, the common counsel of all was that in the meantime some girl ("puella") should be brought to him, through whom he might find a remedy and, as it were, regain his life. The bishop and other ecclesiastical dignitaries present explained all this to the king, declaring that it was his only chance of a cure, and they all promised that he would not be punished for the sin and that they would stand as his guarantors for this before God. The good man answered: "If there is no other cure than this for the illness, let the Lord do his will on me. I prefer to die chaste ("castus") than to live an adulterer." And so he committed all to God, and by the mercy of Him who does not abandon those who lay their hopes upon Him, he conquered the malice of the sickness and soon recovered with the aid of a divinely granted remedy. Oh how healthy ("sanum"), how conducive to salvation ("salutiferum") and how very worthy of memory the words of the prince!

319922.  Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:55 am Reply with quote

As far as I can see, Mackay doesn't give a source for the haircut assertion; but then, he frequently doesn't bother with such niceties. I suggest we quote him in quote marks. "According to Mackay ..."

Frederick The Monk
320537.  Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:24 am Reply with quote

You mustn't let your admiration for MacKay's anti-corn law stance cloud your historical judgment, Mat old bean.

Frederick The Monk
320540.  Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:30 am Reply with quote

And as for Gerald of Wales, one should always be so careful about trusting a man called Gerald. He had so many axes to grind it's deafening. I particular he hated the Angevins and went to ludicrous lengths to prove the Capetians were lovely - which there weren't. The DNB says this:

"[Gerald's] vanity and his disappointed ambitions could make him solipsistic and obsessional. In Powicke's words, ‘Gerald lived every day an existence of dramatic egotism’ (Powicke, 114). A large part of his output was dedicated either to proving himself right or to castigating the vices of others. Sometimes this was in the context of his own quarrels, as in the works on the St David's case or on his dispute with his nephew. Sometimes he adopted a moral, quasi-pastoral stance, as in the Gemma ecclesiastica or the Speculum ecclesie, which was concerned primarily with criticisms of the monastic orders. In the De principis instructione it was the Angevin kings who were the targets of Gerald's vitriol, as he created an image of damned and violent rulers whose replacement by the serene Capetians of France would be a blessing for England."

As my daughter would say - ' clearly bonkers'.

320739.  Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:08 pm Reply with quote

And I think we can all guess who she's talking about.

321069.  Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:19 am Reply with quote

Those corn laws still rankle, though. It's all very well saying "geddover it," but .... grrrr .... those corn laws.

Frederick The Monk
321841.  Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:12 am Reply with quote

I know - sometimes it's just not enough to say 'it was all a long time ago'....

321895.  Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:36 am Reply with quote

Some people just won't let it lie. There are even a few folks who get rather excited over a guy who was nailed to a tree 2,000 years ago. I mean, talk about dragging up ancient history!

323721.  Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:15 am Reply with quote

Hats were not rationed in Britain during WW2; ironically, this meant that they became scarce and expensive. The government was forced to ask the Archbishop of Canterbury to issue an official statement assuring women that it was not improper to attend church bareheaded.

Many older women made their own hats, but many younger women were delighted for any excuse to give up millinery altogether. They were influenced by Hollywood, where female stars had hairstyles instead of hats.

Snoods and headscarves became popular. One memoir of the war, praising the simplicity of the snood, noted also that “It was a mark of defiance then for young women to have shoulder-length hair, as it meant that you weren't in the forces, and therefore, not conforming.”

Hence a possible Q: “When did long hair become a symbol of anti-establishment youth?” with various correct answers, and a forfeit for the 1960s, and the interesting point that no panellist is likely to associate the question with girls instead of boys. (Also links to the Q under Fashion on “When did it become fashionable [for middle-class men] to look scruffy?”)

Can’t remember if we ever used the stuff about Veronica Lake’s wartime hairstyle crisis?
post 21962

S: ‘London 1945’ by Maureen Waller (John Murray, 2005).

Links: Feminism, Fashion

326369.  Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:35 am Reply with quote

The Bank of England said it would swap at least 50 billion pounds in government securities with the banks' mortgage-based assets but would impose "variable haircuts". A haircut, the article helpfully explained, is the name of the percentage discount applied in each case to the value of the assets being swapped under the scheme. "The riskier the collateral, the larger the haircut."

- World Wide Words, 26 Apr 08

1325317.  Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:13 am Reply with quote

Any resources on this?

1350749.  Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:08 pm Reply with quote

at one time, a haircut was fashionable in certain circles, where they shaved the floor of the head and left the hair in front, still made an even bang. I think this is the worst thing I've seen

1350753.  Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:52 pm Reply with quote

Something like this?


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